Science? and other matters

[Newbomb]

Ok Ive been lurking here for about one month and have a couple of questions that I cant seem to find the answer for.

1. Can you have a Great leader generated by
Science and still get one generated by an elite?

2. Could someone explain exactly the effects of of using a Scientist or two in a city?

3. Why does making a unhappy citizen into a tax collector actually help matters in an unhappy city?

4. I really dont understand how harbor trade routes work. (Im an island nation with colonies on a bigger continent) Both with trading with other civs and with distributing my resources.

thanks in advance

"...He blinded me with SCIENCE!..."

[UnOrthOdOx]

Re: Science? and other matters

Originally posted by Newbomb
Ok Ive been lurking here for about one month and have a couple of questions that I cant seem to find the answer for.

1. Can you have a Great leader generated by
Science and still get one generated by an elite?

I'm pretty sure you can, but you can't get a science leader if you have a military leader IIRC. I'm sure someone with more experience will be able to tell. I have seen maybe 3 total science leaders ever, though.

2. Could someone explain exactly the effects of of using a Scientist or two in a city?

Scientists add beakers to the city, I think 3 in Conquests? 1 Beaker = 1 gold spent on science, but is not subject to corruption.

3. Why does making a unhappy citizen into a tax collector actually help matters in an unhappy city?

Only sometimes in certain situations. Basically, citizens are unhappy only if they are working. Removing an unhappy citizen to be a specialist therefore adjusts the immediate situation but does nothing to truly change happiness level with the obvious exception of entertainers.

4. I really dont understand how harbor trade routes work. (Im an island nation with colonies on a bigger continent) Both with trading with other civs and with distributing my resources.

As long as you have harbors on both sides it works like this:

Prior to Astronomy or building the lighthouse, you can trade if the harbors are connected by coast. "Routes" are automatic along areas not containing fog. Routes through enemy territory when at war can be cut off.

After Astronomy or Lighthouse, but before Navigation, you can trade over SEA tiles.

After Navigation, you can trade over open ocean.

Essentially your harbors are automatically connected to all other harbors in the game for the tech level you have.

[joncnunn]

Re: Science? and other matters

Originally posted by Newbomb
Ok Ive been lurking here for about one month and have a couple of questions that I cant seem to find the answer for.

1. Can you have a Great leader generated by
Science and still get one generated by an elite?

Nope, having either a SGL/MGL precludes additional MGLs. You can still get new SGLs hoarding SGLs and a MGL.

2. Could someone explain exactly the effects of of using a Scientist or two in a city?

1. Any specialist is always content.
2. In Conquests, a flat uncorrupted 3 science beakers per scientist regardless of science improvements. Pre-Conquests, it's 1.

3. It will be very depedent upon remaining needed beakers as to weather your throwing money away with the scientists in the form of wasted beakers or not.

3. Why does making a unhappy citizen into a tax collector actually help matters in an unhappy city?

Any specialist is always content.

4. I really dont understand how harbor trade routes work. (Im an island nation with colonies on a bigger continent) Both with trading with other civs and with distributing my resources.

Early in the game, the sea connection with harbors can only pass thru Coastal tiles.
With Astronmeny, sea trade connections can include sea as well but not ocean.

It's not until Navigation or Magnetics [whichever you reach first] that trade connections cna pass thru ocean tiles.

[Lul Thyme]

Re: Re: Science? and other matters

Originally posted by joncnunn


Nope, having either a SGL/MGL precludes additional SGLs. You can still get new SGLs hoarding SGLs and a MGL.

You are wrong and contradicting yourself... (I think its a typo but a quite important one...)

It should be
Nope, having either a SGL/MGL precludes additional MGLs. You can still get new SGLs hoarding SGLs and a MGL.

[joncnunn]

Fixed the typo in the original

[Newbomb]

HMM

Still dont understand if the beakers affect your building program or if not that how they affect your research? I cant seem to see them lessening turn count.

Also in every game I have played I cannot get the AI to buy anything for a per turn count even 1gpt.

[vmxa1]

Re: HMM

Originally posted by Newbomb
Still dont understand if the beakers affect your building program or if not that how they affect your research? I cant seem to see them lessening turn count.

Also in every game I have played I cannot get the AI to buy anything for a per turn count even 1gpt.

I am not sure I understand your questions, but try this concept.

Beakers = gold

Researching a tech has a formula that uses things such had level and map size and some other things to determine how many beakers are needed to learn a given tech.

A citizen works a tile and that tile yields food, commerce or shields or a combination of all three. How much of each depends on the qualities of the tile and its improvements.

You set your slider to a level (percentage) for research, among other things. This determines how much of your gold (net of corruption) is converted to beakers. If you use specialist called scientist, you get a direct conversion to beakers, not affected by corription. This is three beakers in C3C.

Beakers are accumulated each turn until you have at least enough to get a breakthrough. Excess beakers are lost, so it is wise to turn down the slider to conserve any excess.

So the impact on any other production such as a structure is that the more gold you convert to beakers, the less you have for building.

The only way to lower the time frame is to either increase the beakers per turn count or to have additional contacts with civs that already know the tech. The two way to increase the beaker count is to increase the slider rate or increase the enconomy. The economy is increased by additonal citizens working tiles or adding improvments to those tiles worked. Of course there are other improvements to be had such as lowering corruption or a more effecient form of governemnt, but I will ignore them.

One way to end up not getting any gpt deals with the ai is to have broke previous deals with someone. A bad rep will make the AI refuse any gpt deals, even when it is very favorable to them.

[joncnunn]

Re: HMM

I don't bother with Scientists in the epic game, it's too rare for them to make a difference.

In some of the conquests though, there are occansions that scientists come in handy shaving off a turn at the same science slider setting.

AI is programmed under pop-rush govts to set science as high as possible that doesn't run a deficit.

Under cash-rush govts, it's not so clear, except that AIs falling to far behind tend to panic and also devote science as high as possible, [the exact opposite a human would which would be to virtually shut off research and enter GPT deals]

Originally posted by Newbomb
Still dont understand if the beakers affect your building program or if not that how they affect your research? I cant seem to see them lessening turn count.

Also in every game I have played I cannot get the AI to buy anything for a per turn count even 1gpt.

[vmxa1]

I should have also mentioned that the ai will not do a gpt deal, if it would mean a deficit. Remember the AI does not have the smarts to change its slider or work load to generate teh income surplus to fund the deal.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Re: Re: HMM

Originally posted by vmxa1
So the impact on any other production such as a structure is that the more gold you convert to beakers, the less you have for building.

You didn't mention--probably because it's so obvious--that the other production reduction may be the number of shields that could have been produced by the new scientist (or any other specialist).

[vmxa1]

Also because I would not have any scientist, unless I was at zero research and I would only have 1 in the whole empire.

[Mace]

I too rarely use scientist specialists...more likely I use a taxman or two. Having more $$$ coming in means that you can set the slider to devote more to science.

The exception to this is in a city that had, say, The Colossus AND Copernicus Observatory or Newton's. Then I might be very tempted to put some scientists there...probably would pay off better to put a taxman or two there (as I am violating my own rule, hehe) so I could adjust the slider, but hey.

[vmxa1]

I am ignoring metros in this issue as once they get larger than the number of tiles available, then you have free specialist and could be whatever you want.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by joncnunn
2. In Conquests, a flat uncorrupted 3 science beakers per scientist regardless of science improvements. Pre-Conquests, it's 1.

1 what? Civ3 has always been 2 gold for taxmen and 3 beakers for scientists, hasn't it? At least since vanilla1.29.

I'm surprised to hear people not using scientists. They give 50% more commerce than taxmen. I usually make all specialists scientists (as opposed to taxmen) until the last turn of research. Then knock down the science slider to the minimum and switch as many scientists over to taxmen to make the bare minimum of beakers. Sure its MM, but only once per discovery.

[Rommel2D]

Re: Science? and other matters

Originally posted by Newbomb
3. Why does making a unhappy citizen into a tax collector actually help matters in an unhappy city?

Great question...

Some people are just destined to accountancy, I guess.