There is something seriously wrong with this game...

[gunkulator]

This is a good article on the mechanics of WW. In your case Melboz99, losing those cities cost you big time in the WW department. As vmxa1 noted, sometimes it is just better to raze.

You also made a comment about units being left behind and getting picked off. This is where your defensive units come in. If you plan on taking a city, you need enough defenders to hold it against the inevitable AI counterattack AND enough defenders to stay with your attacking stack outside of the city. That's why razing is sometimes the easier thing to do.

[Melboz99]

Well, I tried again with the RAR mod.

I just don't understand it...

I made war with the Irioquis again (don't know how I managed to get them as a neighbor with RANDOM). This time I brought along about 30 archers, 6 cats, and 4 European Spearman (defense of 3, attack of 1).

So, I take the first city without loosing a single unit, great. Then I start the 7 turn march towards their major cities. During that march they sent about 10 braves to my cities.

I should have expected that, but somehow I didn't. I had in most towns 1 European spearman and 1 regular spearman. I thought I would be relatively safe, seeing as how I was using ICS, and could move units from other cities as needed.

What I didn't plan on was the amount of moves a brave gets. It was something like 2 or 3. I had never seen these braves untill they were at my borders.

So, I change the production in nearly half my cities to European Spearman, generating about 4 more.

The first city they came to had only one, because I was caught a little offguard. One brave (attack of 2) took out the European speaman in the first try. The next brave took out my spearman, and conquered the city.



Now, listen to this. I finnally get ready to wreak havoc on his main cities. I bomard the city with my 6 cats and it looks like everyone is down to 1 or 2 HP. So, I go in with my archers. The I wipe out most units quite easily, there were a total of 4 in there, I got the first two with no problems. Then I hit this damn defender, similar to my European Speaman. He only has two HP.

My first archer takes him down to 1HP and dies. The second archer doesn't touch him. The third archer doesn't touch him either, and then the defender became elite, gaining two HP. Finnally, I take out my elite Archer and kill him, barely.

So, it took 4 archers, one of them being elite, to take out a defender with 3 defense, and two HP. Does this make any freaking sense?

Then came more of the onslaught of the braves. The braves had absolutely no problem killing my European Spearman. In fact, my regular spearman held out on average 1-3 attacks more!

Oh, and by the way, that ciy was only a size of 3 or 4, same as mine.

Dan O.

[vmxa1]

I have no experience with this mod. I have no input, except to say that I would suggest you not use a mod. Well at least until you have a good understanding of the standard version of the game.

As to getting Iroq again, that is a function of the bugged grouping. You tend to get the same civs, if you play the same civ.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I have no experience with this mod. I have no input, except to say that I would suggest you not use a mod. Well at least until you have a good understanding of the standard version of the game.

As to getting Iroq again, that is a function of the bugged grouping. You tend to get the same civs, if you play the same civ.

does making just one of the random civs non random help eliminate this bugged grouping effect?

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Geronimo
does making just one of the random civs non random help eliminate this bugged grouping effect?

D'oh, this "bug" is an option, you know. It's called "Culturally Linked Start Locations". Turning it off will help.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Modo44

D'oh, this "bug" is an option, you know. It's called "Culturally Linked Start Locations". Turning it off will help.

"culturally linked start locations" automatically places the iroquois next door to the Celts?

That seems a bit....odd.

[vmxa1]

Not automatically, but you often see the same civs near you. I have seen a lot of posts about it. This was one of the things that was to be address in the next mythical patch.

[punkbass2000]

CLSL automatically picks civs in the Amerindian culture group if they're "random".

[Mad Bomber]

Playing the Celts w/o Iron? That is a travesty. I'd have restarted, Longbows suck, and the Celts don't have a lot to offer past their UU.

[joncnunn]

Hello?
Agricultural AND Religious?

I think the Celts are way too powerful when Iron is only a few tiles from their starting location.

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Playing the Celts w/o Iron? That is a travesty. I'd have restarted, Longbows suck, and the Celts don't have a lot to offer past their UU.

[Mace]

The Celts always seem to be a pretty powerful AI in my games. Once or twice, they even became KAI's on me. Now, I try not to let that happen...nip them in the bud.

Melboz99 I think you could alter your warfighting strategy; basically, unless you're on the sadist difficulty levels, it only takes 2 good-sized stacks to take out just about any AI civ. In that above first example (not using the RAR mod) where you were the celts with no iron, I would have made two stacks, each with about 15 trebuchets, 7 or so spearmen/pikes, and about 30-40 longbowmen/archers. With that stack times two, you could destroy just about any AI.

[Jaybe]

My big question is why are there no good attacking infantry in the middle ages? I mean, you get Longbowman with an attack of 4, and then it's not until replaceable parts that you get to upgrade them to Guirillas. That is just too long imo.

Game design decision to have "fast" units be the predominate attack units. After you become quite familiar with the game, use the editor to change as was more historically accurate if you want. I did.

Next time I should bring along some cannons, definately. I'm just always worried about them getting seperated from the stack, and getting picked off

If you let them get separated, then you should have mathematically determined that they could not be reached. Otherwise, just don't move those defensive units from the artillery, no if-and-or-buts.

[Hellcat]

Originally posted by Melboz99
What I didn't plan on was the amount of moves a brave gets. It was something like 2 or 3. I had never seen these braves untill they were at my borders.

If this sort of thing is a problem, I suggest reading the Civilopedia a bit.

And if you want a better attacker in the Middle Ages, try building Knight's Templar.

[Mace]

Speaking of modding the game to get an infantry attacker between Longbowmen and Guerillas, yes--
I like the idea of adding a "Line Infantry"-type unit, which is something like 5/5/1 or something similar. Represents the later musket infantry of 1700-1830. Before rifled shot.

[joncnunn]

5/5/1 would be way to high an attack factor for Lined Inf.

3/5/1 would be more like it.

The Calvary of that era is also reflected in the AU Mod Light Calvary. (5/3/3)