Best Civ Advantages--Again

[Commy]

So this poll probably has already happened...numerous times, but lets get some recent data...

YOU CAN VOTE FOR THREE

So vote for the three advantages you think are the best...

True, they won't be ranked, but I think we all know that industrious will get first, it's second and third and fourth that matter...

[Jaguar]

1. If you want us to vote for three, allow multiple choice.
2. Are you kidding? Agricultural will be first by a long shot.

[alva]

Yup, agriculture is the new industrialism.

Seafaring can be very strong too on certain maps and in the hand of a human player.

[Drakan]

I doubt Industrious will make it to the first place. That was true for PtW but not in C3C.

It really depends on the level you're playing at, the type of victory condition you seek and the type of map you're playing. But overall, I'd go for agricultural which is a fine trait no matter the difficulty level.

[punkbass2000]

Yeah, I consider Industrious to be a rather weak trait. Maybe 5th or 6th.

[vmxa1]

Well it is map and game dependant to me. Ag is not all that great if you have no rivers and not much land.

I went with commercial.

[Krill]

Expansionist. Even if you start on a small island, you will know about it quickly. Build three scouts from the start, and you have a good chance of getting a free settler, and normally know the layout of the entire continent by turn 40.

[Commy]

Yeah, sorry about that on the poll, I swear I made it so you can vote for three, but oh well, atleast we'll have some new data...

As for agricultural, I wouldn't doubt it is a strong advantage. But I would put industrious above it. Then again, it all depends on your playing strategy, which is why they have 31 civs...

I voted for commercial. Never mind the extra gold you get in cities and metros. That doesn't help a lot. The less corruption, however, while I don't know the percentage, is always helpful, and the lower costs for commercial improvements, I believe, are worth it. Cheaper markets, banks, stock exchanges, harbors, airports, and commercial docks is a pretty good advantage. Having the ability to set up a nice trade network quickly is very helpful, especially if you have island cities or need to trade for crucial resources like iron that may be on a different continent...

As for second, I would say industrial. Building roads in one turn gives you a substantial tech lead (unless on emperor or higher) in the early game, because of the extra commerce that most civs won't have. Also, faster irrigation and mining allows for better and faster infastructure. While these advantages won't hold much weight in the industrial and modern ages, I see here at apolyton most of you don't play the game that far...

Third would go to agricultural, for the same reasons as industrious. Having extra food, and therefore extra growth and faster development, gives a nice lead in multiple areas such as military and economic power, and technology...

Fourth would probably be scientific. The free tech is nice, but not crucial. However, add up the turns it saves you. The free tech in the medieval ages, depending on map size, might have taken you 20 turns to get. The free industrial age tech would probably take 10, and the same for the modern age tech. That's forty free turns of research. Again, this is only beneficial to you if the game lasts that long. Note that libraries and universities are cheaper with this advantage, so libraries would be cheaper than temples, and therefore cultural boosts would come faster for later cities...

Personally, I like scientific and commercial the best, because of all the cheap improvements you get...

[Arrian]

Commercial doesn't actually give you any cheap buildings. It gives you a reduction in corruption and extra commerce from city tiles. Which is enough for me. I love that trait.

Scientific gives you discounts on 3 buildings (library, university, research lab).

The killer building discount civ is Babylon. Temples, Cathedrals and the Scientific buildings. Or Germany (Mil/Sci), with 1/2 cost barracks, harbors, walls, airports, civil defense (and coastal fortresses, but those are utterly pointless).

-Arrian

[Commy]

That, I don't believe, is true, and here is why.

Look at the civ editor, and go to the improvements and wonders tab. In the bottom left corner is a box with all the civ advantages. Most improvements have one or two of these advantages flagged. Just as barracks have militaristic flagged, markets have commercial flagged. From past experiences, this appears to be where improvement costs are halved...

By the way, I don't believe harbors and airports are cheaper for militaristic civs. They're not flagged, and I never have noticed them being cheaper when playing rome or germany...

[MotownDennis]

The commercial traits does not give any cheaper buildings. If it did, I'd put it right near the top. As it is, I think it's one of the weaker traits.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Commy
That, I don't believe, is true, and here is why.

Look at the civ editor, and go to the improvements and wonders tab. In the bottom left corner is a box with all the civ advantages. Most improvements have one or two of these advantages flagged. Just as barracks have militaristic flagged, markets have commercial flagged. From past experiences, this appears to be where improvement costs are halved...

By the way, I don't believe harbors and airports are cheaper for militaristic civs. They're not flagged, and I never have noticed them being cheaper when playing rome or germany...

Play a game then and test it.

Play a game as a COM civ, and then as a non-COM civ... Markets cost 100 shields for both. It's hard-coded and has nothing to do with what wonders and improvements are flagged. Those only affect what wonders give GAs and what the AI likes to build.

[Jon Miller]

I have a hard time voting for 3 here

but I really like starting near rivers

there have been too many times where I have been burned by no nearby freshwater (sometimes none on my island even)

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

scientific can be nice because of the science leaders

industrial is nice for the 1 production early and faster workers

miliataristic is ok for military leaders

religious is nice becuase of changing governments easier (also is good for happiness)

comercial and seafaring are good because you start next to the sea (also a really nice position)

my favorite two are commercial or seaferying and agriculture (makes sureI have access to both the sea and fresh water)

I consider those two about the same (commercial and seafaring)

so third would probably still be religious, although recently I have started being more interested in scientific

Jon Miller

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Commy
That, I don't believe, is true, and here is why.

Look at the civ editor, and go to the improvements and wonders tab. In the bottom left corner is a box with all the civ advantages. Most improvements have one or two of these advantages flagged. Just as barracks have militaristic flagged, markets have commercial flagged. From past experiences, this appears to be where improvement costs are halved...

By the way, I don't believe harbors and airports are cheaper for militaristic civs. They're not flagged, and I never have noticed them being cheaper when playing rome or germany...

Sorry, but you're wrong. As Trip says, test it out. Marketplaces are 100 shields for every civ in the game. Banks also have the same cost for all, etc. Just like granaries are *not* cheaper for Agricultural or Expansionist civs. Aqueducts are for Ag, though

Commercial gives zero building discounts. It's all about corruption, commerce, and of course the starting tech (alphabet, yum!).

Militaristic does give 1/2 cost harbors and airports, AFAIK. Harbors seem a little wierd because Seafaring civs also get 1/2 cost harbors, but it's because you need harbors to build veteran sea units, you see. Airports I'm nearly positive about - although I haven't played a game out that far recently.

-Arrian