Integrated Defense -- tool or toy?

[Dominae]

SDI definitely does its job well if ever you reach that part of the game. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that it is a "must have" if you know the AI has nuclear capabilities and you are nearing the end of the tech tree.

However, IMO it's definitely a toy because you should really be able to end the game way before nukes. And I'm not talking just to those hard-core players who aim to win at or around Military Tradition; even casual players should be able to launch the Spaceship or build enough Modern Armor to seal the deal. Put another way, if you reach the point of the game where nukes are the deciding factor and SDI will actually play a role, you are clearly hanging on to your game for sentimental reasons.

Consider that the SDI is one of the top three most expensive techs in the game, and that it requires all but four of the required techs in the game to reach.

[pedrojedi]

I've built it a few times, but only once I saw it really paying off - and that was a long time ago. And that game was an exception - still wasn't won by that time.

I usually turn off SS, culture and diplomatic wins, and, lately, I've playing conquest-only games, with much fun resulting from continuous bang-bang.

[Theseus]

I've built it and much valued it a few times.... going back to my earliest Civ3 experiences, I seem to face off with KAIs more than most (hmmm...).

When I *do* get that deep into the late game, and there *are* AI civs with nuke capacity... well, YEAH, SDI is crucial! I posted it somewhere, awhile back, but I had an end-game (AU?) where the SDI fended off something like 30 nuke strikes!! (appr. 75%)

/me thinks that being an inverate warmonger might add to SDI's value.

[Shogun Gunner]

Just finished out the game I've been playing for a few weeks now. I won many, many turns ago, but I wanted to play the game to the bloody end...very bloody.

My SDI held up well. Only two of my cities were hit in a nuke exchange - one city twice in the same turn. Poor decision from Mr. Al Gorithym, my resident computer expert in the Antec case. Prolly shot down 20 or so total ICBMs. Some observations:

1. AI makes very strange choices when selecting cities to nuke. Most of the attempted nuke attacks were against fringe, corrupt cities. I wouldn't care too much if they were hit.

2. I was so overwhelmingly strong compared to the remaining AIs when I launched a no-notice/no red-phone-courtesy-call nuke attack hitting every city of the Iroquois. The next turn, the other three AI civs declared war on the Iroquois and they launched their nukes. I witnessed 10-11 Eygptian nuke strikes against one Iroquois city. This was followed up by five Portugal nuke strikes against the same city. Then finally, one Persian nuke (all they had) against the same Iroquois city!!!

3. Early in the game I had marched against the Persians. One after another Persian city would fall...each time they would lose 1-2 ICBMs as I would seize the city. At some point, they should have launched whatever they had instead of letting me take them apart piece by piece.

4. The graphic animation of the nuke missile is pretty cool....as is the ground zero blast. The SDI shot is so fast you have to watch for it. If you haven't tossed a nuke around recently, you really should just sit back and enjoy the fireworks!

5. Okay the graphics are interesting, but the AI seems to have the most problems with military operations in the modern era. It knows how to use cruise missiles - kinda - but it's hopeless in a nuke showdown.

[vmxa1]

They do a poor job of selecting targets, but often it is bases on a resource in the city border.

They will some times hit with more than the required number in the same city as you saw. Any over 3 is of little use. It can be used to eliminate a city altogether, but leaving it with a few pop is good enough.

[Dominae]

2. I was so overwhelmingly strong compared to the remaining AIs when I launched a no-notice/no red-phone-courtesy-call nuke attack hitting every city of the Iroquois. The next turn, the other three AI civs declared war on the Iroquois and they launched their nukes. I witnessed 10-11 Eygptian nuke strikes against one Iroquois city. This was followed up by five Portugal nuke strikes against the same city. Then finally, one Persian nuke (all they had) against the same Iroquois city!!!

Resilient buggers...

[GePap]

If I reach a point where nukes are going to be used, I always hit the enemy capital first, hoping to cut off trade, thought if they have an airport, its difficult.

[Last Conformist]

I don't know if I'm a "hardcore" civver, but I've never got that deep into the modern age. Would no doubt build it if I ever did, tho.

[Commy]

Usually, for fun, I play pacifist, and wait till the modern ages, then I nuke the whole planet and kill everyone using marines and paratroopers in about 4 turns. If I get bored, which I usually do, I build the IDS, although I never have actually had someone nuke me before...

[Theseus]

My last major AI opponent in AU 505 has built the damn thing... what a PITA!!! 500 shields a pop: wasted. I'm getting decent RNG luck though; I'd say appr. 40% of my Tac Nukes and ICBMs are getting through.

[Last Conformist]

Serves you right for not killing them off earlier.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Commy
Usually, for fun, I play pacifist, and wait till the modern ages, then I nuke the whole planet and kill everyone using marines and paratroopers in about 4 turns. If I get bored, which I usually do, I build the IDS, although I never have actually had someone nuke me before...

I have been nuked a couple of time- and have seen the ID at work once- took out 3 ICBM's aimed at me, which was 100% success rate.

[Yosho]

I always turn off spaceship victory (it usually seems to easy to me), so I have gotten to that point in the game before, but I've never actually built it anyway. If it comes down to tossing nukes, you generally have the upper hand.

When I do use nukes, this is usually how I do it. First, I nuke their capital city, and 3 or 4 of their other biggest cities. Then, I wait a few turns until the AI has most or all of its workers surrounding its capital city, trying to clear polution or rebuild roads, then I nuke the city again and kill all the workers. Odds are, if the first nuke didn't take out the airport, the second nuke did, and most of the rest of the people left in the city quickly starve. Add in a little battleship bombardment, and then send in the tanks to wipe up whatever he has left; he won't be able to even support the millitary units he has, and he'll sitting there doing nothing but making longbowmen and riflemen for the next 100 years or so.

[vmxa1]

Three nukes should kill all units, even MA and MI. After that all you can gain is halving the cities pop.

At the higher levels the Ai wil not have any workers at that stage of the game. It has used all its gold to support max troops. You can see at sid they cannot clear pollution because of the lack of workers.

[Theseus]

I screwed myself at the end of AU505... nuked so much that I couldn;t get my MAs in for a dom win (in the AU Mod, MAs are wheeled).