Civilizations' special units--The Best of the Best

[Solomwi]

Mounted Warriors do have one thing going for them that has not been mentioned yet: blocking tricks. A 2-move unit is much better at making the AI dance around (critical on Sid) than slowmovers. But this has nothing to do with mixed-unit forces.

True, Dom, but it's no better at that than the regular unit it replaces. It may just be me, but if I'm playing Persia, I'm going to have a horseman force to augment my Immortals that can handle that aspect. That brings up one other advantage of the MW, though.

I have X number of cities with enough production to build swordsmen/horsemen (Immortals/MW). With Persia, some of those cities are going to be dedicated to building horsemen, leaving me, say, 80% of X to produce Immortals. With the Iroquois, I'm probably not building any swordsmen, leaving me 100% of X to produce MW. I've got the three attack, and in a better package with the two movement, and if I need the two defense, chances are I've already built a spearman or two. On the other hand, there are some functions, like tagging strays, blocking settlers and chasing barbs, that four attack is far less useful for than two movement.

For the record, my favorite UU's (that I've played):

1. Berserk - easy choice for an amphibious assault addict.
2. Mounted Warrior - three attack and two movement.
3. Javelin Thrower - nice early offense and defense and captured workers can be a huge boost early on.
4. Panzer - comes after the game is decided, but lots of fun.
5. Gallic Swordsman - expensive, but a tough early three attack, two movement unit.

[geniemalin]

There is a distinction between effective UUS and fun UUs. The most enjoyable to play are generally those that give you a new capability (or at least a capability in one era you wouldn't otherwise have until a later era.)

List of 'different' UUs (i.e. those that don't just have better A/D/M stats):

Dromon - bombard two eras early, and dominate the sea! Fun and effective. My favourite by a long shot.

Berserk - amphibious attack two eras early. Fun and moderately effective. Easy second place.

Conquistador - the only attacking ATOR unit. Fun. Not particularly effective unless you've got an army to spare, in which case 8/turn pillaging can reduce a civilised enemy to vestiges of stripped and burnt fields in a few short turns... They get my third vote just because of ConqArmies.

Carrack (yes, I mixed them up) - cross oceans early. The unit itself is kind of dull, but gives the Portuguese a second boost in continents maps, as they'll be able to hit the other continents first and sell tech and contacts for a while.

Man-O-War - boarding and taking over (which doesn't sound nearly as cool as Piracy! but is probably less inaccurate)! Haven't actually ever played the English, although capturing enemies sounds kind of fun.

Javelin Thrower - make slaves. Overrated in my experience, unless you're Barb-farming (you sly dog, you!)

Hwa'cha - lethal artillery. I'd play the Koreans a lot more if they had range 2, but with range 1, they're really just better cannons.

[Krill]

Caravel - cross oceans early. The unit itself is kind of dull, but gives the Portuguese a second boost in continents maps, as they'll be able to hit the other continents first and sell tech and contacts for a while.

erm, the caravel is the ordinary unit. The carrack is the UU. But it is a useful UU if you don't use suicide galleys and you are ahead in tech.

[Arrian]

Man-O-War - piracy! Haven't actually ever played the English, although capturing enemies sounds kind of fun.

Not piracy. That's what you can do with the non-UU Privateer unit. Using MoW's will trigger war with a civ whose unit you attack.

-Arrian

[Krill]

Arrian, MoW's can enslave, so even though war will be declared, you could capture the enemy ships...

[Arrian]

I know, but "piracy" implied - to me - being able to nail ships w/o outright warfare. Something only the Privateer can do.

Perhaps my concept of piracy is different than others.

-Arrian

[punkbass2000]

"Berserk - amphibious attack two eras early. Fun and moderately effective. Easy second place."

It's only one era early.

[joncnunn]

The tech allowing Bersker can be gotten as the second Middle Age tech.

The tech allowing Marines is an optional one off one of the last Industrail Era required techs.

That is close enough to 2 eras in my book.

[geniemalin]

What a nit-picking bunch

I'll take the correction on the Carrack; I think of the Marine as essentially Modern rather than Industrial, but technically I stand corrected there too. Piracy! in the sense of 'boarding, capturing or killing the crew and taking it over' I thought was a fair use of the term, but if piracy implies non-nation-aligned ships I'll abandon that too.

However, despite all of that, my point about fun units / abilities vs higher scores, stands.

Unless someone wants to nitpick that too...?

[Solomwi]

The only thing I'll really take issue with is your Jav Thrower comments. It's map and playstyle dependent, so I'm not saying you're flat out wrong, but in my latest game, the enslavement was definitely not overrated. First, there was plenty of open space, so I did have a couple of JTs out not so much barb-farming but barb-gathering. Second, I was able to Jav-rush the Persians and use them to great effect when the Celts sent stacks of archers into my territory.

The bottom line of all that use was a plethora of slave workers early enough to make a difference. Sure, it takes a few turns to get them back to your core, but each pair is one less population point that you have to have out there improving tiles, which means one more pop point in a city contributing gold and shields to your empire. That can be huge when you get a small army of slave labor running around.

So, in any situation ripe for barb spawning or in which an archer rush is feasible, being Mayan is a great boon.

[punkbass2000]

"The tech allowing Bersker can be gotten as the second Middle Age tech."

You need at least three MA techs to be able to include Invention in your list of techs.

/me Master of Picayune

[geniemalin]

Originally posted by Solomwi
So, in any situation ripe for barb spawning or in which an archer rush is feasible, being Mayan is a great boon.

Although I've found the increased cost of the JT means they can't be used for rushing in the same way as archers.

Again, this is based on limited experience with the Mayans, but after nearby Barbarians had been cleared JTs were not very useful, only able to pick off the occasional 1- or 2-hp defender or act as expensive spearmen to defend cities and throw out an occasional 'defensive slave'.

Disclaimer: I play on Standard maps at the largest, and I can see that a Huge Pangaea would give them more scope....

[gunkulator]

I'll second the meh value of JTs. You have to use them early before the AI gets swords. This means a really early GA. Yay. And they're awfully pricey for your early small cities to build. You'll have 1/3 fewer JTs than you would have archers even though you get the same offensive power as archers.

I've tried the Maya twice and it always seems that my JTs are meeting up with a bunch spears and swords. On hills.

[vmxa1]

I only like the JT on deity and sid on an island map. Then I can use them against barbs and not trigger a GA. When the AI shows up, they can get a defensive win in and you probably want the GA then.

If you don't want to trigger it, move them out, so they do not fight. On contients, you probably will have to press them into combat too soon.

[Solomwi]

I should acknowledge that lately I've taken an approach of learning to manage a despotic GA, rather than miss out on some of the ancient UUs' full potential, so that wasn't a huge factor for me.