spanish civilization

[geniemalin]

Conquistador armies are excellent in the Infantry era - you're generally only attacking with artillery SODs, so while your SODs are slowly advancing, your Conq Army can run around nobbling stray workers and destroying roads and rail lines.

[Mace]

The Conquistador the worst UU? I'm not sure.

On anything less than Sid, give me a stack of Conquis, and I'll flat annihilate any AI civ still in the ancient era, or with no iron. That's pretty decent imo.

When modding, I sometimes up the conquistador with extra hps or something. I'm still debating it. I'm making a mod right now and I agree the conq needs something...maybe. I considered 4/2/2 or 3/3/3 but I've always kept it at 3/2/2. The all-as-road helps if deployed properly.

[Egbert]

The conquistador is the only AI UU that worries me (although I don't like facing things like Sipahi). Any worker anywhere near my borders is unsafe as is any resource or luxury.

I love having conquistadores, god help the AI then, he will soon lose his iron, saltpetre, luxuries and horses (even if I lose the conq it is worth it to cut off the iron, so long as I can reach that iron and pillage it). A 4 unit conquistadore army is awesomece.

I am inclined to think that the conquistadore is one of the best UU's.

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Mace
The Conquistador the worst UU? I'm not sure.

On anything less than Sid, give me a stack of Conquis, and I'll flat annihilate any AI civ still in the ancient era, or with no iron.

... which isn't very many civs if you play above regent. Such weakling civs are easy pickings anyway. A stack of Med Inf and Trebs and they're toast. You don't need anything special like Conquistadors.

Originally posted by peterfharris
I love having conquistadores, god help the AI then, he will soon lose his iron, saltpetre, luxuries and horses (even if I lose the conq it is worth it to cut off the iron, so long as I can reach that iron and pillage it).

You almost surely will lose that d=2 Conquistador against any decent civ. That's 70 shields down the drain. Comparatively, I can build 7 Explorers for every 2 Conquistadors and they can pillage an additional 5 extra tiles just as easily. Worse, if you are in Republic, every attacked Conquistador contributes 2 WWP versus just 1 for losing each Explorer.

A 4 unit conquistadore army is awesomece.

Only because the AI is handicapped about attacking full strength armies.

All that said, I agree that facing the Spanish is nerve racking. Your workers and resources are not safe. If the AI had the smarts to pillage with explorers as well as with Conquistadors, it would level the playing field. From a military standpoint, however, Conquistadors are notoriously underpowered for their era. Just put some pikes or mustkets on your resources and workers and I bet the AI leaves them alone. Problem is, none of us are used to playing that way.

Conquistadors are a lot like Impi: units not good for much except pillaging. It sucks when you have them as neighbors, but that doesn't mean they are all that powerful from the human perspective. What's unusual about them is that the AI actually knows what to do with them.

[joncnunn]

Impi also make the perfect defenders for your Horsemen attacking in the ancient era.

[Mace]

Originally posted by gunkulator ... which isn't very many civs if you play above regent. Such weakling civs are easy pickings anyway. A stack of Med Inf and Trebs and they're toast. You don't need anything special like Conquistadors.

That's very true...
I was indirectly making reference to Cortes and Pizarro, who, in the 1520's and 1530's, destroyed two bronze-age civs with Conquistador-equivalents.

[GodKing]

In a multiplayer game, they can be devistating. I consider them an average UU. The Civ traits are good however, and overall it is an average choice. I have played well and poorly with them.

[MotownDennis]

Impis are one of the VERY best UU's in MP games. Conquistadors are average to above-average in MP games. They force your opponent to guard each and every city, whereas normally, interior or back cities may be left unguarded.

As mentioned, Conqs are absolutely devastating when used for pillaging. You pillage a tile or two then move to a nearby mountain to wait for the next turn. Clearing Conqs off mountains isn't necessarily a piece of cake.

Overall, I've used Spain in long epic-style MP games and have found them to be about average. Their traits are pretty nice. People shouldn't base everything on the UU. That's only a small part of a civ's ability.

[Commy]

Well, if you're playing spain, chances are it's because of the UU, not the advantages...but that's my opinion...

[Commy]

As far as good early UUs, I'd go with the Babylonian Bowmen and Mayan Javelin Throwers. Even without Iron, you can still kill...

[MotownDennis]

Jav Throwers are, hands down, one of the weakest UU's in the game.

[joncnunn]

Javan Throwers 33% of the time turn defeated oppoents into workers, including BARBS!

Best with Raging Hordes and combine with the barb farming tactics.

Also remember not to join the created barb workers into cities or else you'll have happiness problems. (You are ALWAYS at war with the barbs)

Originally posted by MotownDennis
Jav Throwers are, hands down, one of the weakest UU's in the game.

[MotownDennis]

Yeah, I understand that.

Here's why I say the Jav Thrower is a terrible unit:

If you're in a game where you actually have to fight early on, let's say you run into a no horses/no iron problem. Ouch! With the Mayans, you can't even build archers! The jump from 10 shields for a warrior to 30 for your "next-best" attack unit is just too much, IMO. It makes the Mayans heavily resource-dependent in the early game.

Good thing they've got those great traits to back them up.

[joncnunn]

If I had neither horses nor iron in a SP game I'm probably heading pretty rapidally to the restart on a new map button.

Originally posted by MotownDennis
Yeah, I understand that.

Here's why I say the Jav Thrower is a terrible unit:

If you're in a game where you actually have to fight early on, let's say you run into a no horses/no iron problem. Ouch! With the Mayans, you can't even build archers! The jump from 10 shields for a warrior to 30 for your "next-best" attack unit is just too much, IMO. It makes the Mayans heavily resource-dependent in the early game.

Good thing they've got those great traits to back them up.

[MotownDennis]

Unfortunately, you can't do that in a MP game. You've got to learn to work with what you've got. By resetting, you never learn to survive without resources. You can overcome it, but it's tough without archers.