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**McMeadows** · October 17, 2004, 04:47

bad copy?

Trade isn't broken, it's very important. Tech trade whatever you can and you'll keep up with the AI. While you grow and start to become a tech leader, keep on selling and they'll support your high tech rate. Then there comes the point that you're having a big tech advantage and just roll over the AI.

Plan your wars. Archers is a risky option, swords definately a better one. Next would be coming in with knights. Then cav's and finally tanks (supported bij artillery and bombers, as in huge amounts of them to soften up defenses and smash counter attacks). As long as you have those units available first (due to tech or research advantage) you'll be able to knock an AI out.

The moment of your golden age (GA) is important too. At least take care you're prepared for it and make sure it doesn't suprise you.

Happiness is controlled in a large way with luxuries, make sure you have enough of them and otherwise trade or go to war for them. Same goes for resources with respect to be able to build certain units.

Furthermore, all this stuff IS here in the forums.

**mikepalomino** · October 17, 2004, 05:43

Trading Techs for techs is fine, but it doesn't make me money. I think 99.99 percent of the time, the other Civs never have gold in their treasury.

I quit a game just now where I had several French swordmen go up against Incan archers. I got owned. If you ask me the game is rigged to give the AI an advantage in combat.

**Modo44** · October 17, 2004, 07:57

Originally posted by mikepalomino
Trading Techs for techs is fine, but it doesn't make me money. I think 99.99 percent of the time, the other Civs never have gold in their treasury.

The point is to sell one technology for many other techs. Learn which ones the AI won't be likely to research and get them. Sell them for any other techs you might have missed. For starters, stop listening to the science advisor, he's your doom.

The AI won't have money before they switch out of despotism. Also, they spend a lot when they are at war.

Originally posted by mikepalomino
I quit a game just now where I had several French swordmen go up against Incan archers. I got owned. If you ask me the game is rigged to give the AI an advantage in combat.

No, it isn't.

First, for small numbers, statistics don't work. If you have a 1/10 chace of winning, you may still be in for a loss at the 10th try. Try 100 games with each fight repeated 100 times over and _then_ count the results. You might find them correct.

Second, you probably remember yor losses much more than the wins. You might view it as normal when you win against odds 3 times straight (happens a lot with Archers vs Spearmen...), right? Well it isn't normall, you just don't mind winning and you won't think much of it. But you will curse the living hell out of the game after a single Sword dies attacking a Spearman, right? Well, that happens a lot and nothing is wrong with that result. So, stop whining and get over it. Shdt happens and this is just a game.

**Tarquinius** · October 17, 2004, 08:01

I think you were just unlucky with your battles. Try it again and you will probably do better.
You should really look at the thread "the Regent-Monarch jump", there are a few useful tips there.

The advice I want to give you:
When you start at a new level (Monarch in your case) restart a few times until you get a nice starting position (For example one or two cattle + a river on grassland).
Take a Civ whose traits and Unique unit you like. Build an early Granary in your capital and/or 2nd city. You will see that you will easily outexpand and outresearch the AI. Just send out a few scouts/warriors to find the AI early.

Don't bother with defensive units like spearmen. You should either build very little military in the beginning of the game (only enough to fight barbarians and some warriors for Military Police Duties) or build up an attack force consisting offensive units and smash your neighbour(s)!

Try again with these things in mind and you will do much better. Especially the Granary is a golden tip, my game really improved when I started using them!

**Barinthus** · October 17, 2004, 09:30

I'm just a chieftain player at the moment but I'm confident if you posted a savegame at 4000 BC and one at about 50 or 100 turns later along with screenshots, fellow players here will be more than happy to take a look and make suggestions.

I plan to do that myself sometime soon.

**Harovan** · October 17, 2004, 14:31

Post some screenshots and a savegame. I am very sure the strategy buffs will give you valuable advice and you will master Monarch and higher in no time.

But beware Theseus, he is a warmonger and should change his name to Genghis Khan. He will without doubt try to drag you on the dark side. And beware me, I am a cynic.

**joncnunn** · October 17, 2004, 14:36

My best guess for those finding Regent to easy and Monarch to hard is excessive use of the luxary slider.

The way Civ III is set up, there should be a good reason before turning it on. Acquiring luxaries via settling and trade is the primary happiness tool.

Also, get the max value for tech trades. Unlike an AI has a lot of money, this will usually involve techs on each side. Sometimes you can get trade the tech you just recieved for another tech your lacking.

You might also want to try a cool or normal temp + wet mositure to increase the rivers. If your empire is in a river network with grassland/plains/[agriculare only nearby desert],you can easily take an early game tech lead.

Also, explore for the goody huts, especally if Expanionist. And explore to get contacts both by land and sea.

**Kloreep** · October 17, 2004, 17:32

Re: I -AM- Desperate

Originally posted by mikepalomino
First of all, I just don't understand why I consistantly fall behind technologically. Even with my tech level at 90 percent, I'm still the last to reach the next age.

Considering the AI gets 9/10 costs for stuff - pop growth, libs, etc - it's not surprising if you're behind in reaching the mideval era.

If you're behind in getting to the Ind, then yeah, there probably is a better way for you to set up a research machine.

Originally posted by mikepalomino
Trade in this game seems to be a "broken" feature. At this point I prefer the old way of creating fleets of caravans and shipping 'em off. Trade in this game is non-existant because the AI Civs almost never have money.
Even then I doubt it would work because the AI seems to overvalue its commodities over yours.

The AI does price its luxuries insanely high once you have a fair amount of luxes already. This is because it judges the price based on how many happy faces you would get from the luxury, not factoring in how badly you need it or if you're offering a luxury in return. Whether you want to trade at these insane prices is up to you.

But rememeber, it works both ways. If an AI has a large empire with a lot of markets, you can get a lot out of it for luxes if it has the money.

Originally posted by mikepalomino
...And speaking of the AI. It amazes me how the AI not only expands at an alarming rate, but also is able to research faster, and build wonders all at the same time. I thought it was said that this game doesn't cheat?

It does cheat at Monarch. (Regent is the level playing field; below Regent, the AI has higher costs than you, and above it, the AI has lower costs than you.) The biggest bonus is 9/10 cost for building stuff and for city growth. You also get a small penalty on your research costs.

Originally posted by mikepalomino
Finally, the one thing I would really like explained to me is: If there's no cheating involved, how is it that that AI seems to win a majority of its battles?

Are you sure you understand the combat defensive bonii?

Some important ones:

+10% if defender is on flat terrain (tundra, grass, plains, desert)
+25% if attacker crosses a river
+25% if defender is fortified
+... something if the defender is in jungle or forest. I forget how much.
+50% if defender is on a hill
+100% if defender is on a mountain
+50% if defender is in a town with walls, or in a city (city=size 7-12)
+100% if defender is in a metropolis (size 13+)

Stack enough of these and a 20-shield spearman can easily face a 70-shield Knight or 40-shield Med Infantry on even ground. A fortified spearman inside a walled town, with the attacker crossing the river, will be at 4 defense. A fortified spearman on a mountain will be stronger than a knight, at 4.5 defense.

Originally posted by mikepalomino
I have seen the AI take out my cities with one archer against two or three spearmen.

If you have that lone archer outnumbered, how did it take your city? Did it attack over several turns?

Always counterattack. Don't build too many defensive units. Defensive units are there to take the attack when you can't destroy the approaching enemy stack in time (or when said stack is on defensive terrain like a mountain), and to protect your expensive offensive units from the AI's counterattack. Don't count on them to win your battles for you; you need to be able to take out AI troops on your own turn. Especially when the AI is attacking with mounted units that can retreat when wounded; you need to have your own mounts to chase those wounded AI units down and destroy them while they're at a disadvantage.

Originally posted by mikepalomino
ANd I have seen legions of my troops go against a sparsely defended city, only to fall one behind another. This happens with amazing regularity, and statistically speaking cannot be consistant with the mathematical combat model.

What was the situation like? Was the city on a hill? Did it have walls or was it size 7 and up? If the answer to both of those is yes, and you've been attack spears with swords, the odds were against you. Never underestimate the power of defensive bonii.

If you did have the statistical advantage... yes, it is skewed sometimes. The RNG would not be producing a truly random pattern if it did not happen to produce streaks sometime. Just plan your war builds with more than enough troops to win it with average combat results, and smile when the streak is to your advantage.

**Theseus** · October 17, 2004, 23:24

Excellent responses all around (except Sir Ralph!!

).

Mike, there are loads of threads around here that address your basic game... terrain improvement, city spacing, early game management of neighboring civs, etc. And, yes, the best thing you can do is post some saves: 4000BC, 1000BC, and 10BC, and we will chime in with some concrete advice that will do wonders for your play.

But on top of that, I've just come with a new paradigm for play strategy, that I think I will suggest to you as the first... this builds on a conceptual thread I once wrote, the Seven Pillars, and the starting point is, all due credit given, with Arrian:

I ask you to do something very simple: Gain six luxuries.

That's all. I think there might be simple, overaching goals like that, that cascade into all of the other things one needs to do to successfully prosecute a given game.

Show us some saves, but also start playing that way... that's the first one that comes to mind, six lux, but I am sure others will chime in with more!

**Jon Shafer** · October 18, 2004, 00:14

Yeah, posting some screenshots and savegames will help us analyze what you're doing and give some suggestions on certain things.

**Dominae** · October 18, 2004, 00:20

Re: I -AM- Desperate

Originally posted by mikepalomino
First of all, I just don't understand why I consistantly fall behind technologically. Even with my tech level at 90 percent, I'm still the last to reach the next age.

Setting the Science slider at 90% is no guarantee that you be competitive technologically. You need a good economy for that.

As a simple example, imagine you produce 100 Commerce per turn, of which you get 90 Beakers from your 90% Science rate. I produce 150 Commerce per turn, meaning I get 145 Beakers. I could put my Science slider as low as 60% and still research techs as fast as you.

As you can see, a major factor in determining how fast you research is how much Commerce you're generating. You get Commerce by working tiles with Roads on them, or coastal tiles. You get more Commerce by working more tiles like these, that is, by having a lot of population, and also by being in a Republic or Democracy.

Other factors affect the speed of your technological advancement, like Libraries.

Once you reach Monarch, however, this is not enough. You really do need to participate in the tech trading game in order to keep up or gain the lead. There are numerous thread out there on how to do this, and I suggest you read as many as you can. It's knowledge that is straightforwardly implemented in your games.

The relationship between a strong economy for research and the tech trading game is that the former provides the means by which you can engage in the latter.

**Theseus** · October 18, 2004, 01:07

Originally posted by Theseus
Excellent responses all around (except Sir Ralph!!

).

Mike, there are loads of threads around here that address your basic game... terrain improvement, city spacing, early game management of neighboring civs, etc. And, yes, the best thing you can do is post some saves: 4000BC, 1000BC, and 10BC, and we will chime in with some concrete advice that will do wonders for your play.

But on top of that, I've just come with a new paradigm for play strategy, that I think I will suggest to you as the first... this builds on a conceptual thread I once wrote, the Seven Pillars, and the starting point is, all due credit given, with Arrian:

I ask you to do something very simple: Gain six luxuries.

That's all. I think there might be simple, overarching goals like that, that cascade into all of the other things one needs to do to successfully prosecute a given game.

Show us some saves, but also start playing that way... that's the first one that comes to mind, six lux, but I am sure others will chime in with more!

**mikepalomino** · October 18, 2004, 01:51

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I will definately heed your advice and I will try to follow it the next couple of times I play.

Here are a few thoughts:

I do understand the defensive bonuses work, for those who thought perhaps I wasn't aware. I must issue a correction on something I said, I said I had an archer take a town of mine with several spearman. I meant to say I had a town with a Veteran spearman in it, and it lost to a lone archer. He was fortified in town, and the town was built on a hill, and the archer won out.

While a victory for the attacker is certainly a possibility, it just seems to me that the computer wins a majority of the battles even when I'm at a territorial advantage.

Again, I'm old school when it comes to Civ. I almost miss the days when a lone phalanx at the top of a hill could literally fight off legions of armies.

It just seems that when I initiate combat, my combats are resolved seemingly by a different set of rules than the ones the computer goes by. Statistically speaking.

What I'll do is I'll start to take count of my battles and the ones I win and lose, and the circumstances involved, and let you guys know.

I'll continue to read the forums too to see what I can learn.

All I want really is to give the PC competition, and to hold my own. So many times I get to the Industrial age, and the computer is literally pumping out one Wonder after another, and I'm struggling to just keep up.

Thanks again for everyone's comments!

Mike

**gunkulator** · October 18, 2004, 09:06

Originally posted by mikepalomino
Thanks everyone for the replies.

I do understand the defensive bonuses work, for those who thought perhaps I wasn't aware. I must issue a correction on something I said, I said I had an archer take a town of mine with several spearman. I meant to say I had a town with a Veteran spearman in it, and it lost to a lone archer. He was fortified in town, and the town was built on a hill, and the archer won out.

If you've come to CivIII from CivII, you must first learn to forget your CivII combat biases. One of the things that made CivII insanely easy was that combat was just too depressingly predictable. It made protecting your empire ludicrously simple. As others have said, you don't ever want to depend on 1 lone unit defending against 1 attacker.

OTOH, losing a city isn't always the huge disaster it was in CivII, especially if the city is small or new. The winner gets very little money, no tech, a resistance population that won't work and just 9 tiles of land.

While a victory for the attacker is certainly a possibility, it just seems to me that the computer wins a majority of the battles even when I'm at a territorial advantage.

Nope. It's all your imagination. Really it is. I used to think this too, however last night I had a lone Cavalry survive 2 attacks from Knights and 1 from an Archer but you won't see me complaining or reloading!

Again, I'm old school when it comes to Civ. I almost miss the days when a lone phalanx at the top of a hill could literally fight off legions of armies.

Well, you know where CivII is if you want that. Seriously though, didn't you find it a trifle unfair that the AI would expend literally hundreds of shields on a single 20 shield Phalanx? And that's just one of many exploits that the human can use to dominiate the AI in CivII (don't get me started on Diplomats and Spies!).

I'll continue to read the forums too to see what I can learn.

Yes! I too came from CivII and was ready to chuck the game out the window because I sucked so bad at it. Then I came here and unlearned many of my "bad" CivII behaviors. I still only play on Emporer and continue to find the game a good challenge.

All I want really is to give the PC competition, and to hold my own. So many times I get to the Industrial age, and the computer is literally pumping out one Wonder after another, and I'm struggling to just keep up.

Search the forums for advice on pre-building and tech trading.

Good luck!

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