Alright. :rant:

[UnOrthOdOx]

Just wanting a casual game, I set up a standard map, emperor, random all, Mongol game.

The map has kicked my ass twice now, something that's rather novel to me on Emperor, so have at it oh ye poly experts and show me how it's done.

[UnOrthOdOx]

See, can't complain, right?

[Dominae]

Well, I could complain about your graphics mod...

[UnOrthOdOx]

Probably, but it's neccessary for me as I'm color blind, I've collected graphics that help me distinguish terrain best. Might not be the most appealing to everyone.

Anyhow, what's went wrong:

Well, you'll all soon see that it's a little island, NO water, Desert, Field, hills, mountains and a FEW tiles of grassland. There's wheat, sugar, and oasis enough for 4-6 (depending on your theory on overlap) decent cities and a number of camps (size 3 with 2 field tiles, harbor could allow some gold flow). Trouble is the (very close) neighbor has the better land with wheat on fields and grassland.

There's a logical progression for the game: Conquer island, conquer China (on a near island (huge, comparitively) with 3 lux), conquer backwards Arabs who will have only 4-5 cities, knock off the rest.

Both games I've kicked ass on the neighbor, both games I've begun conquest off the accursed island and into China. Both games I've got the Great Library, and both games I've been unable to capitolize on it due to lack of contacts. (though I now know WHERE to go suiciding if I play again)

Finally, both games I've had the Vikings get the Lighthouse and rape me with surprising efficiency for an AI since probably 90% of my cities are coastal and I'm well behind in tech at that point.

[Dominae]

I'll see what I can do, but later on in the week...

[Dominae]

I fired this one up a little earlier than I thought.

Interesting game. With the power of the Expansionist trait you get to see your predicament very early (within the first 5 turns). I agree that the only real recourse at that point is to take out the Ottomans and rush for Map Making to settle the adjacent continent. The devil, of course, is in the details.

Here's a recap of what I've done so far:

4000BC: Karakorum
3850BC: Contact Ottomans
3700BC: Trade with Ottomans
3250BC: Attack Ottoman Settler/Warrior with Archer - Success
2710BC: Granary
2510BC: Ta-Tu, Attack Ottoman capital - Success, Peace with Ottomans for Bronze Working and Ceremonial Burial
2310BC: Curragh

What's missing from this timeline is that I built three Archers first after seeing that the Ottomans were so close. I also saw that unfortunately the Chinese were within shouting distance of the Ottomans, so no Arrian Deception would be possible.

I did not build a Barracks because I figured that: 1) the Militaristic trait should promote most of my initial strike force, 2) the Ottomans will not put up much of a resistance, so my Archers will likely live a battle or two, and 3) I need to get to Map Making as quickly as possible, and that means saving money on upkeep costs.

I lost an Archer in attack on the 2-Spearmen defended capital. As you can see from the screenshot, I've blocked off further Ottoman expansion, and my Curragh will soon meet the Chinese. I plan to take out the Ottomans "honorably" after I bop another Settler or two.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Damn near identical start to my 2 games there.

Other than I took their capitol straight off from here, (minus the requisit 20 turns due to China) that is.

[GodKing]

Oh crap, just looking at that screen shot makes me gasp. This start looks to severly suck.... perhaps you should consider keeping the ottimins around for use as a science slave/whore.

[Solomwi]

But how much use can they be on an island that size? You've got to keep them limited to just a couple of cities to have room for any kind of start to an empire yourself, and at one or two cities, how much will they really be able to contribute?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Odd little side note, Ottomans went to the spot directly N of the cow in both my games for their first settler stack. Looks like they went over to the oasis in yours? interesting.

One note where I possibly deviated from your plan, Dominae is that I went for Philosophy and it's free tech in order to grab Map Making both times.

The first game, I was not first to Philo, but was able to trade it for Map with China. The second game I payed more attention to Microing (I don't typically because I find it boring) and was first but took Lit and traded Philo to China for MapMaking, since I knew they already had it.

As for keeping Ottomans around, I figured the grassland was more valuable than another AI since I was going to be invading China for the tech/slave whore.

Both games I delayed attacking China's core, taking outlying lux first, for a specific reason, we'll see what Dom comes up with.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by GodKing
Oh crap, just looking at that screen shot makes me gasp. This start looks to severly suck....

Yeah, but it's doable. I SHOULD have been able to roll once I got the core of China collapsing. After that, a little palace jump, well placed FP, and a nicely timed GA would have placed me right in line. Hell, if my suicide galleys (well over 30 lost each game) woulda found the others I would have been able to properly use the GL to keep pace. Probably just bad luck with the Vikings targetting me at the worst possible time both games.

If I hadn't lived long enough to get the world map the second game I'ld be more eager to retry. As it is, a third would feel too much like cheating since I know where to suicide.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Damn near identical start to my 2 games there.

Yeah, a start like this sort of restricts your options.

Odd little side note, Ottomans went to the spot directly N of the cow in both my games for their first settler stack. Looks like they went over to the oasis in yours? interesting.

No, they went in the same direction in my game. It's just that I put up a semi-screen before they got there with a Scout and an Archer, then bopped the Settler/Warrior when my second Archer came on the scene. The roads that you see in the eastern part of the continent are works that I got the two resulting Slaves to do. It was too dangerous for them to immediately head back to my capital because of a pair of roaming Ottoman Spearmen.

One note where I possibly deviated from your plan, Dominae is that I went for Philosophy and it's free tech in order to grab Map Making both times.

That's what I plan to do too. It will be a tight race though because of the lack of Rivers on the continent (although the Sugar does help). So I'm going to use MPs to keep Luxury spending down, and try to get as much cash as I can out of the Chinese to research at a deficit.

Both games I delayed attacking China's core, taking outlying lux first, for a specific reason, we'll see what Dom comes up with.

I have yet to see the Chinese continent so I'm going to stop reading your spoilers for now...

[Dominae]

Next bit (until Philosophy):

2230BC: Contact Chinese, Trade for The Wheel with Chinese, Horses!
2030BC: Kazan, Trade for Mysticism with Ottomans!
1750BC: Almarikh
1700BC: Contact Arabs
1625BC: Writing, Trade for Iron Working with Chinese, Iron!
1575BC: Tabriz
1500BC: Ulaanbaatar
1425BC: War with Ottomans
1275BC: Philosophy, Map Making

Keeping the Ottomans around for a while longer was beneficial in that they discovered Mysticism and I was able to trade for it "for free" by giving them Alphabet.

I built a total of three Curraghs. One went along the southern tip of the Chinese continent to meet up with the Arabs. The other went North and seeing there was nothing but a suicide crossing, looped around and explored the western coast of China. The third Curragh did take the suicide route, made it across, but is not reporting back anything of interest (a small Jungle island).

Despite the lack of fresh water on the home continent, it's hard to complain about a source of each Horses and Iron!

With Map Making I have two options: put a Harbor in every city, or build up my military and hit the Chinese ASAP. I'm going for the latter, and consequently I'm going to make a run for the Great Library.

[Arrian]

:shudders in horror:

[punkbass2000]

This start somewhat reminds me of a game I just recently played (and lost). Sorry that this the earliest save I've got: