Help, eyes about to implode...(newb questions)

[gotham]

Just a couple of questions on strategy. I've spent about 10hrs today just reading and reading on strategy. All of you that play on Emperor/Diety I envy the Stephen Hawking in all of you.

After reading for a few hours yesterday I went home and booted up a game right away. I was ready for something better than Warlord (which I can't beat) and went right to Regent. I also have a penchant for playing the Earth scenario. No random map for me, no sir! I kept getting stuck on Australia. That really honked. Here's what I haven't been able to address really...

How do you culture flip someone elses cities?

Also, people keep saying that the best way to get techs is to extort them but the AI I am finding is too slow, or am I too fast?

I still have trouble establishing embassies. Do I need do have line of sight on their capital ie. a unit right beside it so that it isn't greyed out by fog of war? I haven't been able to establish anything beyond peace agreements thus far.

Oh, and is part of the problem that I am playing on the Earth scenario? Do random maps not have this problem as much?

Other than that this is a great resource and thank you one and all for your submissions...

[conmcb25]

Culture Flip: Have more culture than your opponent and pray to the RNG gods

On the embassy, have you tried shift-E to try and build one?

[Dominae]

Re: Help, eyes about to implode...(newb questions)

Originally posted by gotham
How do you culture flip someone elses cities?

Three things:

1. Build a city (or cities) as close to the target city as possible.
2. Build a lot of cultural improvements in that city.
3. Make sure that your empire-wide cultural value is also high.

Also, people keep saying that the best way to get techs is to extort them but the AI I am finding is too slow, or am I too fast?

This is not such a great strategy on Warlord where you can research faster than the AI anyway. In any case, trading for techs is the best way to get techs, with extortion not far behind. You use extortion to get yourself to parity, then propel yourself into a lead by doing your own research.

I still have trouble establishing embassies. Do I need do have line of sight on their capital ie. a unit right beside it so that it isn't greyed out by fog of war? I haven't been able to establish anything beyond peace agreements thus far.

You need to have Writing to establish Embassies. The way to do it is sort of confusing, since it's not through the normal diplomacy screen: you have to click on the star icon next to your capital's name on the main screen, which will get you into the Espionage screen. From there you can pay a sum of Gold to establish Embassies with those civs you've contacted.

[vmxa1]

I would add that culture flipping cities is not all that common. You can see cities surrounded by your cities and have no direct contact with its capitol and still not flip.

More likely is to take the city by force at some point.

[snoopy369]

Culture flipping, even more specifically, is caused by the following factors (and probably some I don't remember), more or less in decreasing order (ie biggest effect first):
(Each effect is calculated seperately for EACH civ vs. the civ that owns the city, i believe. Correct me if i'm wrong.

1. Proportion of your vs. their citizens
1a. Resisting foreign citizens
2. Number of unhappy citizens (vs happy ones)
2a. WLTKD/Rioting city
3. Distance from the capital of each civ
4. Number of squares in the 21 square radius that have enemy military units on them
4a. Military units inside the city (prevents flipping)
5. Number of squares in the 21 square radius under that civ's control
6. "Culture" (global, and pretty much impossible to calculate directly) proportion, your civ vs theirs.
6a. "Local Culture". I haven't a clue what this means, but it's a supposed cause.

In order to have ANY chance of flipping, a city must have either (1) or (5) as "negatives" -- ie, either foreign citizens, or squares under other civs control in its 21 square radius (ie maximum city tiles).

But, i'll put it to you this way. According to FlipCalc (which you can download here on apolyton somewhere), which is fairly accurate (though not perfect by any means), a of yours city with 3 foreign non-resisting citizens belonging to a particular enemy, with that enemy's local culture greater and with 1.5:1 ratio of enemy:your culture, being 2x as close to the enemy capital as your own, rioting, and only 1 unit inside, has a whopping

1.70%

chance of flipping this turn, and 16% chance of flipping after ten turns. And that's a pretty lousy city in the flip sense. A non-captured city (ie all native citizens) with 2 garrison units and equidistant between capitals would have to both be rioting and have SEVEN squares under your influence to give you even a 2.00% chance of flipping in any given turn -- meaning you're going to wait 30 to 40 turns for it to flip on average... so don't count on it. Any AI that's going to let you steal 7 of its squares and not go to war is a pretty lousy AI.

[snoopy369]

As a postscript... City flipping is pretty unclear, still, even with a gazillion super-intelligent stat geeks on Apolyton trying to figure it out. The basic rule of thumb is that city flipping is mostly a pain in the rear, and almost always takes effect only after you took a city from an opponent and didn't garrison it properly and/or starve its citizens properly.

Yes, you heard me. A common (and good) strategy to prevent these flips is to starve citizens thoroughly, down to 3 or so, before speed-building citizens back. It decreases flip chance, and then gives you a chance to build up your own citizens easily (with the best food squares).

Flips to gain cities at peace are a thing of the past (ie Civ1). Civ3 basically you have to go to war to be able to gain citys, since it costs you more in the short and long term to flip them than it does to go to war, no matter what the situation.

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by snoopy369
1. Proportion of your vs. their citizens
1a. Resisting foreign citizens
2. Number of unhappy citizens (vs happy ones)
2a. WLTKD/Rioting city
3. Distance from the capital of each civ
4. Number of squares in the 21 square radius that have enemy military units on them
4a. Military units inside the city (prevents flipping)
5. Number of squares in the 21 square radius under that civ's control
6. "Culture" (global, and pretty much impossible to calculate directly) proportion, your civ vs theirs.
6a. "Local Culture". I haven't a clue what this means, but it's a supposed cause.

I don't believe point 2 is relevant to the calculation. I think "Local Culture" refers to the culture that a former AI town possessed before you captured it (though I'm not sure).

Flips to gain cities at peace are a thing of the past (ie Civ1). Civ3 basically you have to go to war to be able to gain citys, since it costs you more in the short and long term to flip them than it does to go to war, no matter what the situation.

Not true. I just had 2 AI cities flip to me within 2 turns in AU601, and I was at peace with the AI civ.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Aqualung71

I don't believe point 2 is relevant to the calculation. I think "Local Culture" refers to the culture that a former AI town possessed before you captured it (though I'm not sure).

I've seen it argued that unhappy citizens helped cause flips, and i've seen it argued (and included in FlipCalc) that rioting and/or WLTKD affected the chances of a flip. I'm not sure about either, but both make sense so i mention both.

Not true. I just had 2 AI cities flip to me within 2 turns in AU601, and I was at peace with the AI civ.

I don't argue that you can't get cities -- just that it's not reliable and not very cost-effective on a consistent basis.

[Flandrien]

Re: Re: Help, eyes about to implode...(newb questions)

Originally posted by Dominae
In any case, trading for techs is the best way to get techs, with extortion not far behind.

Also don't forget to sell the tech you just traded for to other civs, and use the cash to keep research at maximum (with a deficit).

[Theseus]

Rioting increases the chance of a flip, I am quite certain.

And to add to snoopy's point about starving down: Starve to 3 pop??!! NO WAY... 1 pop or bust!!

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by snoopy369

I don't argue that you can't get cities -- just that it's not reliable and not very cost-effective on a consistent basis.

I have to agree that flipping is not reliable way to gain cities. I just finsihed a game where I never flipped a city and I played out till I had every tile.

At one point I had all but one city and it was an island one tile city of Russia's and I had one of my captured cities flip back.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by vmxa1
At one point I had all but one city and it was an island one tile city of Russia's and I had one of my captured cities flip back.

That would make me... angry.

[gunkulator]

In all the Civ3 games I've played, I've had exactly 2 AI cities flip while at peace. Both were crap cities built on that one coastal square I didn't control, across the ocean from the AI, undoubtably producing a whopping 1 shield, 1 commerce. In other words, useless cities that would have fallen immediately as soon as war was declared. Since then, I line the unclaimed beach squares with units once the AI has Magnetism.

I've had a captured city flip back to the AI at peace. It was the former capital and had Sistine Chapel and a couple other wonders. The AI had been reduced to a distant 2 square island. Too far away so I left it alone. Big mistake. It took about 30 turns, but when it flipped, my whole empire went into revolt. Since then, I never leave 1 or 2 city civs alive anymore, especially if they had built wonders that I really need. It seems that the flip calculations don't take into effect the realities of a civ's current power.

[Dominae]

The simple heuristic to getting a lot of flips in your favor is to build up a lot of Culture. Sounds simple, but it's usually not.

Try this for your next game: play a Religious civ, and build a Temple before anything else in each of your new cities (including your capital!). Then set aside one city early on and build as many cheap Wonders as you can there (Colossus, Oracle, Statue of Zeus, etc.). With this strategy you can easily keep up with the AI in Culture on your favorite difficulty level (I've done it up to Demigod). The only problem is that you're sacrificing some economic efficiency, meaning that while you'll be ahead in Culture, you might be behind in research and military. That's okay because it's easier to catch up in those things than it is in Culture.

It's an fun/different way to play, and will give you insight as to what you can really do with Culture.

And remember: a watched city never flips.

[gotham]

While all of this discussion has been great, I am still quite a beginner player. What I was trying to get at is I think is how do I get a culture victory?