Civ 3 Integrity and Fun

[Dis]

so what is the most efficient city layout?

[Barinthus]

Now, now, Dissident, I may be a newbie but we know this calls for a completely new thread

[gab169]

All I'm saying is that I try to place all my cities in a way that there are few unused spaces between them and some of the cities (my capital being one) have almost all of the radius to itself.

[McMeadows]

I think that the AIs have many unfair advantages

AI has a big disadvantage in being unable to THINK.

Only playing on the worldmap had me play with knowledge beforehand. Never even had it cross my mind to play on known maps. I can see the efficiency, but it spoils the exploring excitement in the game.

[gab169]

Well, I can understand that. Let me ask you this, though, because I would like to try it your way and see if it is more fun. How much effort/resources do you put into exploring at the start of the game? Do you build a whole bunch of units to go out and explore the area around you or do you just move your settlers blindly into the area around you until you find a resonably suitable place to build?

[Antrine]

Making the map and then experiencing the map I so made is the fun for me. Both ways back and forth, for a well built map is so intriguing of use in gameplay. Made more than can be mastered in one game, you can do it again and yet again from different starting points. For instance is old Europe ever really boring? Studying maps is itself fun, no matter this game! I like the unknown factor or random factor a lot, so my goody huts are 'invisible' and scrambled.

Another point of getting over cheating was 'stealing' techs from other Civs, for without 'preserve random seed' you can reload until stealing pays off! For this admission I got handsomly derided.

It is interesting to see from what perspective each finds enjoyment when playing this game!

hi petermarkab, I sent you a PM, let me know if it worked.

[petermarkab]

Originally posted by Antrine Another point of getting over cheating was 'stealing' techs from other Civs

Yeah, I used to do that loads in SMAC; i'm probably a 10 pc. cheater nowadays, and i certainly feel satisfied when i overcome a bad start, an inconvenient invasion, or a friendly meeting with the natives!

Antrine, I'd like to try your map - would you mind posting it?

P

[vmxa1]

Since this thread title is very cogent for my purposes, let me ask this question:

Is it a cheat, fair or clever to do the following.

I am play a deity game when I finally took over my contient. I see Aztecs and Russians have good size chunks of land and America has been the leader the whole time, till now.


I soon move ahead in the score, but I know I really have not gotten a large enough fleet, nor troops to take on even the smallest civ.

I mustered up 14 galleons and fill them with Inf/Art/Calv and 1 Num Merc. My sole purpose is to land on a hill next to a Mayan city. Take the city and use the NM to trigger my GA and maybe get a leader or two and then gift the city to Japan.

Things go well and I take the city and a small counter attack occurs. It leaves a bunch of 1HP units next to the city. I use the NM and get a GA and a bunch of elite calvs actually gets my first MGL.

I crack an army, sell structures and then gift the city and get out with most of my troops before the big numbers get in their licks.

Now this is something I never have tried before and was not sure the troops would be send to the capitol, but they were.

The evil part is I intend to return with more armies and more ships ASAP and come back to take the Japanese city. The Mayan troops will just stand around and I can regroup. Build a barracks, temple and harbor, maybe a wall before going for the Mayans.

I hope to get even more units in before then to absorb the attack. I figure 4 or 5 inf armies (4 units each) should be able to handle the action with scores of inf and calv and arty to back them up. The Mayans only have 7 cities, so maybe 250 units? I have taken the city back now and there are two stacks of 50 or so on the hills next to it (Mayans).

So is this way out of line or marginal or just smart?

[Antrine]

Extremely clever! I am impressed! I think reloading is a 'mechanical' cheat. What you are doing is simply clever, unless the AI's are so stupid to allow you to do it more than once.

For that is what you could accomplish 'once' against human opponents. Will the Japanese allow you to gift them yet again after you have turned on them?

I have never been so clever, only because if I run up against something, I just climb into the editor and try to adjust or fix it out that way. In order to have more formidable AI's, I have beefed their start units/armies way up instead of turn up to SID. So if I try to invade or be sneaky I just get hit hard. So I find now I treat the AI's more straight forward.

But gosh darn that is sure sneaky, I guess I am a little jealous of such thinking!

[vmxa1]

I don't know if they will go for it again, but I suspect that as long as you are at peace and it is just a straight gift, they will take it.

The whole idea was to be able to land all my troops so that the Mayans would not care. So gifting the city make those tiles free to land on without interference. Humans would have had units or workers on those tiles, so no one could land without marines or Beserkers.

If you land on Mayan or any other homeland you will not be able to fort before wave after wave its you.

Well if you have a couple of armies in the stack they will leave them alone.

In this one I finally attacked the Mayans from that city and they have countered with about 90-100 units (LB and calvs). I did not lose a single unit. They have stacks of 34/20/42 next to my city and 12/5/28/8/2 on the second ring.

It did get touch and go on losing three armies, before the AI finally put up infantry with full health. It loves to use the army on defense, even if it has only 2 HP left.

I only got two promotions out of the whole thing and I have the Epic up.

[vmxa1]

BTW I gave it to Japan as I figured they were not strong enough to move in and take down the Mayans before I did.

The Americans and Russians, would have been risky. Also Russia atacked me at this point. Crazy, they send 30 ships with 3 escorts to each galleon.

This is not enough to do any damage to the largest civ (me) with rails up and MA building armies every 5 turns. I had two empty armies just waiting to be filled.

I wanted to save them for tanks, but oh well.

I see the Americans have one city on Japans land, so that will be my next target. Grab tha city, make peace as Japan is the real target. Use that city to stage up lots of tanks (by then).

I just want to get a few of the smaller civs out of the game to slow down Russias research pace and speed up turns.

[Antrine]

Hi vmxa1, we may be in jeopardy of highjacking 'gaerdraug's' thread here with these last few posts.

One tie in may be that, how many are having fun with CIV are also using mechanical work-a-rounds or cheats. ( what you are doing, I think is bad design apdaptation of dealing with CIVIII at Deity or SID, since it is a over-rated difficultiy based on shield production handicaps).

How much success of this game (I wonder) is based on players using 'cheats' in order to enjoy the game?

There is a question for the 'marketing gurus' and Zeus help our industry if they both new and utilized said statistics!

'QUOTE//In this one I finally attacked the Mayans from that city and they have countered with about 90-100 units (LB and calvs). I did not lose a single unit. They have stacks of 34/20/42 next to my city and 12/5/28/8/2 on the second ring.UNQUOTE//

This of course is game ridiculous and sounds like CIVII all over again. (my opinion of course, not personal to you or anybody).

If the AI had a better mix of units, could use artillery and had well fielded armies, I think you would have had much more satisfaction playing that scenario. As is, what was it except to defy the odds (production) at Deity or Sid. Without that caveat, I think you would sooner quit the game in disgust.

Having fun, I think, requires some sense of fairness, and then you win anyway! I am off-base here?

Anyway not hammer but maybe focus our conversation here a little more in line with the thread's creator.

[vmxa1]

Well I would try to not hijack, but he only post once and that was on the 19th, so I suspect it is not a problem.

BTW I thought I was playing Deity, but when I restarted my PC and loaaded up I noticed it said Sid. I guess I forgot to change the selection, no wonder it was a bit of a struggle.

I was not expecting as many troops as I am finding and now I know why. That is why I was beat to Philosophy.

But you are correct, it is the lack of armies that is hurting them. The mix of troops is due to lack of money or resources.

The AI does many tiny silly errors as well. I notice the Americans (at war with me) sent a galleon and it ended it turn next my shore. Not only can I now use atries to paste it, but they did not end in a tile that was producing anything.

A human would have seen the coastal tile was not in the cities radius. Stopping on a food tile can hurt cities at max pop.

Anyway why send an on escorted galleon into hostile waters?

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Dissident
But we aren't going to crucify you over it.

Don't trust him.

[Beta]

Originally posted by bobbo008
anyone who gets mad at you for doing anything in the game is an idiot. you play the game exactly how you enjoy it most.

No one was getting mad at him. And we are not idiots. He asked for advice, and advice, from the perspective of those giving it, was given. No judgement was intended, one way or the other.