When to attack as an early warmonger?

[Petrus2]

Ok, I'm a builder by preference, but wanted to try some warmongering early (I've always been jealous of all the MGL that the militaristic cultures get!). That causes a problem, since my habits are not those that support playing an Aztec and going on the early offensive! In a game I started, I was busily expanding madly; I had probably...hmmm, 17-20 towns and area 'protected' to fill in another 5. Had 2 cultures near me (Spain, America) and another 2 (Dutch and er, someone else) not that far away.

I was building plenty of Jag Warriors, but then I realized that I was now facing enemies with lots of spearmen and some archers for their attack.

Did I wait too long, in my typical Builder Mentality, to start the attack? I was hoping to have a base to support enough troops, as well as make my GA be worth a bit more that if I attacked too soon. Or is this typical, that you just need to be ready to swarm the spearmen?

Game is on monarch level, my preferred "fun" level to game (Emperor just takes too much time, around the interuptions of RL).

Thanks in advance

[conmcb25]

The sooner the better.

The longer you wait, the more time the enemy has to build up.

[Cookie Monster]

I play monarch level as well and 9 times out of 10 engage in early wars.

Sometimes you have no choice in the matter as the ai will declare war on you first but assuming this isn't the case with you here's my advice.

I wait until I have at least 4-6 towns in place. At least two of them should have a barracks and do nothing but crank out units. The other towns can alternate between producing military units and city improvements/workers/settlers what have you.

When you have a stack of 8-10 units it's time to attack. Check the military advisor screen (F3) and see which of your neighbors is weak. If one is lacking iron then definately attack him asap and grab what you can. If you have iron and he doesn't even better!

[Aramis]

I think waiting until you have everything ready to start a war is a bit self-defeating. I used to do that, and I was often waiting way too long, giving opponents time to build up, or start a war with me first.
I don't think there's an optimum time. When your blood is up and you can just taste the carnage to come is the time to start. And yeah, be sure you have 8-10 units.

[Dis]

with the aztecs, you have to do it earlier than everyone obviously. Jag warriors just aren't that good. But I love their movement.

Egypt kind of has to attack early. But if you are playing persia, you have some time to set up some core cities get barracks built, research iron working (or trade for it) then build up a military.

[Aramis]

Persia is a good choice.
Egypt, being Rel & Ind, has advantages that come later, making it great for being a builder who wants to build until s/he can go warmongering like crazy.
Carthage is good, as well, for the long term. I'd suggest peaceful relations as long as possible if playing these.
All the Mil civs are great for early wars, but they'd better come damn early.

[Antrine]

Well, I have modded to this; undeclared war starts in earnest on the very first turn. The human gets 6 settlers, AI’s 8 settlers each along with what I call a first-strike force, these long-range ‘hidden nationality, near invisible units (some units can see them) can and will take cities out first turn (a global road network is pre-built with almost no units tagged to pillage).

If by random chance, you are squeezed betwixt two or three belligerent AI’s, the first three turns is live or die. The human has no first strike capability, only limited defense and many scouts. From turn 10 to 25 it is touch and go. An early war here will be a doesy, because everything is double and triple speed (growth, movement and resources). After turn 25, a major build up is the priority for by turn 40 or so all hell will break loose with well-stocked AI fielded armies numbering in the dozens. Everyone is dangerous, make friends or else!

Many ‘start’ units are not available for re-build until later so timing and finesse is king.

[cracky]

If I have seen further,

If I have seen further, it is only because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.


I used to wait for IW and a large group of swords, or if things were progressing especially slowly in my city development I might even wait for knights. But after lurking here at 'poly for quite some time, reading all the AU DARs and what-not, my second or third city does nothing but push out archers, with the occasional rushed archer from other cities. Once I have (at most) six archers, its time to go. Even at Emporer, (which I'm just adjusting to now) this stack will usually get you at least one city and a few techs. If you manage to do this quickly enough, this short stack can even move on round-robin style to another civ, though the archers will usually be accompanied by swords by this point.


War, and more war. The sooner the better!

[Petrus2]

In reply to the general comments, as opposed to one in specific...

Yep, I realized I should have started the offensive sooner. Like I said, I'm a builder at heart, and am purposely trying some different civs to get the warmonger flavor of the game. Picked Aztecs cause the Jag Warriors, while weak individually, seem pretty powerful when you consider their 2 pt move for scouting AND retreating from battle. Thinking about trying Zulu instead, but havent' decided (obviously the game I had played to 18 cities has to be thrown away if I'm gonna try this kind of game!).

I often play Egypt, for the wonderful traits they have, so am used to fighting "sorta early", but not as a requirement to utilize my civ. In fact, just won a game with them by Culture, which was kind of a surprise since I hadn't been paying attention to that

So all in all, I'm gonna try Zulu or Aztec again, but this time will probably get 3 cities going, then use 1 to continue to pump out settlers, and two to build my army (filling the new towns with some of those new units, the rest for an attack stack). New towns will build units for my offensive army, and I'll follow the general advice of making that first attack quickly, at about 6-8 units in my army.

Should be a fun change of pace for me!

Thanks for the ideas, everyone.

[gunkulator]

You might want to consider Babylon. The Bowman is a no resource 20 shield 2/2/1 unit that can take as well as give a beating. After conquering, this rel/sci civ gets ALL those culture buildings on the cheap.

I'm too much of a chicken to try an early unit rush, but if I ever did, I figured I would use either Egypt or Babylon.

[Petrus2]

I've played Bab, but go the builder route with them. I'm specifically looking to use a militaristic culture to get the rapid promotions, earlier MGLs, and just the general game play that it all entails. I'm also thinking about using some of the militaristic cultures with later UUs, still doing an early archer/horsie rush, then having a special unit later for a better GA.

Lots of options, but that's a good thing!! Next game (as soon as I get home from work, in UGH! 9 hours) will be either Aztec or Zulu, then maybe America for a different game, then Japan I think, or any mid-game UU militaristic culture.

[conmcb25]

Go agriculture for the REX bonus, and an early UU. Just be ready for a GA in despotism.

[Petrus2]

Originally posted by conmcb25
Just be ready for a GA in despotism.

I'll be ready I guess, not sure how much good that will do though!

[Kuciwalker]

"Just be ready for a GA in despotism."

'Ready'? Nothing happens!

[Petrus2]

Hmmm, that DOES raise a question. If you get a GA in despotism, will you actually GET the bonus shield/trade like bonus squares do, or is it lost to the 2-resource-per-square cap that usually applies?