Changes to city list for the Russians?

[FinalEndeavour]

Ok, have looked through the archives, and not seen it mentioned there, but I may have missed it.

Any reason why there have been major changes to the Russian city list with Conquests? I play them a lot, and it was a shame to see no more Kiev, Riga, Minsk or even Baku or Tblisi. I know those mentioned are now capitals of countries, but for a long time they were under Russian control, are we now editing history?

[Last Conformist]

I too think it's a shame.

It's apparently an attempt at PCcy.

[FinalEndeavour]

If we are going down THAT route, then best change a few things:

1) Take out Luanda, Rio Janiero and Sao Paolo from the Portugese, as those cities are now in either Angola or Brazil.

2) Hippo Regius taken out from the Romans (Hippo Regius was originally founded by the Carthaginians I believe).

3) ANY city ending with "polis" from the Egyptians, as thats Greek.

4) Salzburg from the Germans, as its an Austrian city.

5) Rename all the Chinese cities correctly, as Canton should be Guangzhou.

6) Take out the cities now in Pakistan from the Indian list.

7) Remove Antioch (founded by Greek dynasty after Alexander), Sidon and Tyre (both Phoenician) from the Persian list.

I don't think it's right to mess with one civilization in the game because of Political Correctness if you aren't going to apply the same rules to ALL the others.

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Actually, Salzburg wasn't Austrian before Napoleon - it was an independent clerical state.
Most successful move of Austria? making the whole world believe Hitler was German and Mozart Austrian

However, the German list could need a lot of work (Königsberg!).

And yes, it looks a lot like PCish, but then, there are easily enough genuine Russian cities, and the citizens of Ukraine, the Baltic states or the Caukasians my be a little more iffy here due to recent history, so why not?

[FinalEndeavour]

I know what you mean about the German list, its rather.. short! And yes, Salzburg was an independant clerical state, but if things are changed with the civilizations because of the here and now, it should be removed. I guess Königsberg is included as it was the capital of Prussia for a long time, though there are plenty of other large German town and cities that aren't on the list that should be. Dresden and Wiesbaden jump to mind quite easily.

As for the genuine Russian cities, yes its true there are plenty to choose from, but why change it now, why not at the beginning of making Civ III? I've made a scenario file with all the missing names put back in, plus added to a few names to some of the other civilizations with hardly any names like Germany or India, as seeing Delhi2 or Berlin2 is a bit naff!

[Dauphin]

It can be amusing when you see the same city appear under its different names for different civs. Eboracum, Jorvik, York.

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

IIRC, there's an entry in the c3c credits to someone who provided the Russian names, so I'd guess they simply didn't have it before...

And yes, the German list is about the worst - city #2 is RL 13th biggest, with no particular historical importance (Leipzig). Even a number of Bundesland capitals are missing; Dresden, Wiesbaden, Mainz, Düsseldorf. Not to speak of the running gag 'Heidelburg' :vomit: ...

Eboracum, Jorvik, York.

Just finished a nice game where I moved my capital to York pretty early (more central, not coastal location), and built the FP later in Eburacum . Not for style points, it just was the best city for that.

[FinalEndeavour]

Dauphin, Ive had games where ive controlled York, Eburacum, New Eburacum (those Celts expanded quickly) Eboracum (Roman) and New York (wrested from the Americans), can be quite funny, but also a bit confusing at times.

Doc T, maybe Leipzig was included as it was one of the major cities of East Germany, only reason I can think of. Plus if they are going to have Salzburg, then why not have Vienna as well, would make sense.

Am still editing my scenario file, any idea why there is a Kazan' in Russians and Kazan in Mongols? Now thats going to get me confused at some point as my current game now has me up against those pesky Mongols!

[Last Conformist]

3) ANY city ending with "polis" from the Egyptians, as thats Greek.

The names are Greek, yes. The actual cities in some cases, like Hieraconpolis, far predate anything we'd call Greek civilization.

[Last Conformist]

Am still editing my scenario file, any idea why there is a Kazan' in Russians and Kazan in Mongols? Now thats going to get me confused at some point as my current game now has me up against those pesky Mongols!

Because the Russians got a closer transcription of the Russian name, while the Mongols got to make do with the traditional anglicization.

[The Vagabond]

This was the first thing I noticed when playing C3C for the first time:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117065

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by FinalEndeavour
Am still editing my scenario file, any idea why there is a Kazan' in Russians and Kazan in Mongols? Now thats going to get me confused at some point as my current game now has me up against those pesky Mongols!

This is actually one and the same city. It was founded by Golden Horde, and later captured by the Russians. Last Conformist is right about transcription. And it also has to do with pronunciation. Russians pronounce it with a solf 'n', while Tatars with a hard 'n'.

Anyway, I doubt it was a wise decision to include it into two different civs simultaneously.

[FinalEndeavour]

Better to have taken out Kazan instead of somewhere like Vitebsk, I took out Kazan from the Russians and let the Mongols have it, my new list for Russia has 50 unique cities now.. and Germany now has 45! How will Bismarck cope without having Berlin2?

[CarnalCanaan]

I have qualms.

Portugal SHOULD have what are now Brazilian/Angolan cities it its list because it founded them & for quite some time Brazil WAS Portugal! (Royal Portugal, anyway).

However, if Brazil is made into a Civ then what happens to Portugal? Does it become a 'Hittite' Civ, overlapped by later civs. (Hittites -> Romans -> Byzantines -> Ottomans ... *arg!*)

One thing I've never had the chance to find out... I know that the game will not repeat city names within a Civ, but what about across the whole map? Can there be two Richmonds or two New Yorks between the American and English civs?

...

Maybe this is justification for a completely retooled Civ4 model, something along the lines of the "History of the World" board game.

[Firefly]

Originally posted by CarnalCanaan
I have qualms.

Can there be two Richmonds or two New Yorks between the American and English civs?

I don't see why not after all there are already two Richmonds in England .