Wierd situation; please advise

[Theseus]

Because Rifles suck.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Theseus
Because Rifles suck.

Rifles: 4/5/1

LB's: 4/1/1
Spears: 1/2/1

Sorry, but I'd rather have the rifles.

can you explain WHY they suck?

[Dominae]

The main reason Riflemen suck is that they require Nationalism to build, and Nationalism is a so-so tech in a era filled with must-haves. But since KenderBane has Nationalism already, there's nothing inherently horrible about them stats-wise, especially if he's being attacked and has no resources other than Coal!

Personally I would have tried to get the AI off my back some other way (sign alliances against far off civs), and bided my time until Replaceable Parts. Artillery makes your push for resources a lot less bloody than Riflemen and Longbowmen alone. You save yourself the research/trade cost for Nationalism. And you might even get lucky and be able to trade for Iron in the meantime.

[vmxa1]

Yeah, that is what I think T meant. Not that rifles suck perse, but that many people will not research it right away.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Yeah, that is what I think T meant. Not that rifles suck perse, but that many people will not research it right away.

I agree that nationalism isn't a top priority for research, but to say that riflemen suck as a unit, particularly when the alternatitive is spears and longbows is flat out wrong.

Should kenderbane trade for Iron, if possible? Of course.
Should KB try alliances to help with the problem? Sure.

But to deal with the immediate problem (given that he'd already researched nationalism) is to build rifles and cannon and to research Replaceable parts asap.

Typically I don't research nationalism AT ALL, I let the AI's do that for me and make a trade for it. Rail, Factories, Stock Markets, Hospitals, Infantry, and Artillery are just too good of alternatives to research nationalism. But, if I can pawn off a few luxes and a bit of gold to get nationalism, I surely won't keep my pikes and muskets around waiting for replaceable parts.

[Theseus]

Oh, OK, Rifles don't suck completely given the current situation, especialy as upcoming Infantry will be valuable.

I guess what I'm saying is that I disagree with the choice to have researched Nationalism, and would instead have gone Elec then Rep Parts.

KenderBane NEEDS offense to take additional resources, and Rifles, for that purpose, SUCK.

4-attack at the price?

No thank you, I'd rather wade in with Pikes and Longbows, knowing that I could still later upgrade the Pikes to Infantry and the LBs to Guerrillas.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Theseus
...
I guess what I'm saying is that I disagree with the choice to have researched Nationalism, and would instead have gone Elec then Rep Parts.

I have no argument with this approach.

KenderBane NEEDS offense to take additional resources, and Rifles, for that purpose, SUCK.

Rifles aren't the best for the attack role, but I'm guessing KB is going to be on the defensive at first and against immortals I'd like to build at least some rifles.

No thank you, I'd rather wade in with Pikes and Longbows, knowing that I could still later upgrade the Pikes to Infantry and the LBs to Guerrillas.

Only problem here is that KB can't build pikes, or muskets. He is stuck with spears and I wouldn't want to go up against immortals with my highest defensive value at 2.

[Don Giovanni]

Interesting thread!

I just wanted to remind you that Nationalism allows mobilization (at least in vanilla Civ3). Nationalism would allow him to defend himself until rep. parts IMO. But, maybe I'm just a chicken

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Don Giovanni
Interesting thread!

I just wanted to remind you that Nationalism allows mobilization (at least in vanilla Civ3). Nationalism would allow him to defend himself until rep. parts IMO. But, maybe I'm just a chicken

true, but I rarely (If ever) use the draft. As a player who loves to fight as a demo I really don't need anything adding to unhappiness. Also my army is usually very large by the industrial age, so I don't need conscripted units.

However if I was in KB's situation I might think about drafting at least to some extent, but Theseus is right as far as the research path should be executed.

Steam Power>Medicine>Electricity>Replacable Parts

[gunkulator]

I think DG was talking about mobilization as in mobilizing the the economy for war. Drafting is a last gasp for everyone, however if you're trying to fight off 30 shield Immortals with 80 shield Rifles and 40 shield Longbows, the extra shield advantage of mobilization can be just the ticket. Personally, I rarely find a use for mobilization, but I think this may be one of the few times it is valuable.

[Don Giovanni]

That's the use of mobilization I was hinting at. And I think KenderBane could take it a step further, by declaring war against a small and puny civ just to build up the defence. - I do that before invasions from time to time. (One of the problems with mobilization is that you need it BEFORE you go to war, like in the real world!)

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Don Giovanni
That's the use of mobilization I was hinting at. And I think KenderBane could take it a step further, by declaring war against a small and puny civ just to build up the defence. - I do that before invasions from time to time. (One of the problems with mobilization is that you need it BEFORE you go to war, like in the real world!)

Now that I think of it, KB could certainly use the mobilization feature as he's already at war and can't build any factories to help with those 80 shield rifles. The only drawback with mobilization is that you can't build city improvements while on a war-time footing, but this is probably the least of KB's worries.

[Tattila the Hun]

People suggest building cannons. I thinks they reguire iron and saltpeter, which he (yet) doesn't have. So it's catapults, for now. And guerilla don't need rubber, I think.

[Mace]

catapults? He should be able to build Trebuchets...

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
People suggest building cannons. I thinks they reguire iron and saltpeter, which he (yet) doesn't have. So it's catapults, for now. And guerilla don't need rubber, I think.

I didn't think that cannon needed resources, but if so then he will have to make do with Trebuchets or cats. The important point is to build significant bombardment units if you plan on going on the offensive with foot units.