Wierd situation; please advise

[KenderBane]

How would you have handled this situation ?

World Huge (360x360!); Archipelgao; warm; moderate humid; 5 billion years old. All 31 Civs. Regent level. I'm the Spanish.

My problem is this. My nation has NO resources at all.

I control about 6% of the surface of the planet (according to victory screen). But I have NO luxuries (not even a single Icon). NO horses; NO Iron; NO saltpeter. In fact, the first resource I have access to is Coal (1 icon worth; and its near my border with the damn Persians).

Right now; I have borders with the Mongols (who have horses and several of their UUs); Persia (who have iron) and stack of Immortals; the Inca (across a wide strecth of ocean; but closer than most other civs); and the Egyptians (who are also resource poor; but must have traded for Iron; because they have pikemen).

The only thing I have going for me is that I have some the best agricultural land in the game (lots of bonus food resources) and therefore a substantial population advantage.

With both the Mongols and Persia clamoring for war; and me without any resources (other than 1 coal, which I expect to lose to a Persian SOD of about 15 or so Immortals), how would you handle yourself ?




My 'solution' was to research Nationalism (my first Industrial age tech was obviously steampower) and pay thru the nose to upgrade spearmen to riflemen. But my army is entering the industrial era and I still have nothing better than spearmen and longbowmen.

HELP !

[vmxa1]

It is hard to make pronouncements without a better sense of the situtaion. I suspect I would go with lots of CxxC cities and get to Monarchy. Build as many spears and archers as I could crank out and see how my neighbors like to deal with SoD.

I would like to hit them before I get so far as Monarchy though. If I have to pillage a bunch, then so be it.

If I get me a leader to make an army, then the civ I am after is in big trouble. You may have to set research to zero to pay for the troops, until you capture some land.

[Dominae]

He can see Coal, so I doubt Archers and Spearmen are an option anymore.

I suggest you get Replaceable Parts ASAP, switch all production to Artillery and Guerillas, then with a sizeable force attack the nearest neighbor that has the resources you need (Iron, primarily, for Railroads). With such little landmass it would be quite a challenge to win the game without going to war (a Diplomatic win would be your best bet, but those are no fun).

[Dominae]

Re: Wierd situation; please advise

Originally posted by KenderBane
My 'solution' was to research Nationalism (my first Industrial age tech was obviously steampower) and pay thru the nose to upgrade spearmen to riflemen.

I think this is the right idea, but unless you were being attacked right away, I would have waited for Replaceable Parts instead.

[KenderBane]

With such little landmass it would be quite a challenge to win the game without going to war (a Diplomatic win would be your best bet, but those are no fun).

Actually, Dominae, 6% of the land mass is enough to make me #2 in the game. There are 31 (!) civs; so an average civ would have about 3% of land mass. I'm at double that.

And unfortunately, the Persians declared war on me. This is gonna be brutal. His SOD of immortals versus my Spearmen/Longbowmen stacks ... Lots of corpses.

And usually do go to war early ... but I wait until I have better offensive units than the AI's defensive units (for obvious reasons); but this game, I simply don't have the resources to do anything.


And thanks for the advice ! (Keep it coming, though, I'm not great at this game, but I love it anyway).

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Dominae
He can see Coal, so I doubt Archers and Spearmen are an option anymore.

I guess this is what happens when one is not clear and state all one is thinking.

I was not talking about what to do now, IIRC he already had a plan for now.


I meant at the start when he found no horses and no iron. Of course Indistrial age is a bit late for spears and archers. Sorry for the confusion.

[Drachen]

Your situation doesn’t sound all that bad. It sounds like the Persians declared on you so you’ll get some happiness thank you very much. If you think you can hold them off for awhile then try to buy a few military alliances against them; particularly if you can get them into a multi-front conflict. Your road network should be well developed by now and this will give your units a significant movement advantage against the Immortals which are weak on defense and slow moving. They are likely to attack the same area repeatedly which may allow you to gain control of the battle zone. The AI has a strong tendency to attack the weakest city close to them so you may be able to shift units between cities directing where they go and making them waste movement. It may be helpful if you can get a well defended stack of catapults on the high ground above their invasion path. You may get some armies out of the battle and that will really help! Just remember that battle is where humans rule and so this is where you start your march to domination. Go get em.

[Jon Miller]

use artilllery units

at Regent, longbow men and artillery and spearmen are enough to beat on through in the (Very) early industrial

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

use artilllery units

at Regent, longbow men and artillery and spearmen are enough to beat on through in the (Very) early industrial

Jon Miller

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by KenderBane


Actually, Dominae, 6% of the land mass is enough to make me #2 in the game. There are 31 (!) civs; so an average civ would have about 3% of land mass. I'm at double that.

And unfortunately, the Persians declared war on me. This is gonna be brutal. His SOD of immortals versus my Spearmen/Longbowmen stacks ... Lots of corpses.

And usually do go to war early ... but I wait until I have better offensive units than the AI's defensive units (for obvious reasons); but this game, I simply don't have the resources to do anything.


And thanks for the advice ! (Keep it coming, though, I'm not great at this game, but I love it anyway).

build some cannon, upgrade the spears to rifles and build riflemen at the same time. With research you should beline to replaceable parts and crank out infantry and upgrade the LB's to guerillas (assuming you get rubber) After you have done that, go on the offensive with Infantry, Artillery and guerilla stacks. Once on the offensive your primary task is to obtain Iron and Coal. If you failed to get rubber then you will have to make do with rifles until you obtain some.

I have assumed, of course, that for some reason you are unable to trade for Iron.

[Theseus]

As some who have been around here for awhile know, I have a track record of leading my troops into desperate situations against impossible odds.

Arty and Guerrillas... forget the Rifles and Infantry. It's gonna feel horrible, but forget about tech research for the moment. Military military military... you can take'em, starting with whatever neighbor has whatever you want and moving on from there. It's gonna be a slog, but just damn button up and do it!

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by Theseus
As some who have been around here for awhile know, I have a track record of leading my troops into desperate situations against impossible odds.

Arty and Guerrillas... forget the Rifles and Infantry. It's gonna feel horrible, but forget about tech research for the moment. Military military military... you can take'em, starting with whatever neighbor has whatever you want and moving on from there. It's gonna be a slog, but just damn button up and do it!

If he already had replaceable parts then I'd agree with you, but he just finished nationalism and he IS facing ancient era units so if he can build up a core of rifles and cannon he can stabilize the situation until obtaining or researching RP (which is at least 2 techs away)

[UnOrthOdOx]

Longbows and Cannon do just fine against the units I've heard mentioned, though.

Not neccessarily stop research, but slow it down and prepare to upgrade the both of them, but an offensive with longbows and cannon is doable against muskets and even...painful as it may be, rifles. Especially with those pillage specialist UU's if you still have them.

[bob rulz]

Don't longbowman have more offense than an Immortal has defense?

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Longbows and Cannon do just fine against the units I've heard mentioned, though.

Not neccessarily stop research, but slow it down and prepare to upgrade the both of them, but an offensive with longbows and cannon is doable against muskets and even...painful as it may be, rifles. Especially with those pillage specialist UU's if you still have them.

Doable but very painful.

Longbows are great but you also need defensive units when going against immortals, and I'd rather build a lot of one unit than have to balance a spear and LB stack. Spears are also ineffective against immortals unless they occupy strong defensive terrain . Resources are not an issue with rifles, so why not build them instead?