The First Half Hour

[Aqualung71]

Pretty much the only situation where I would build a settler before a granary is on flood plains with wheat. I would also generally build at least 2 warriors before a settler.

[Mountain Sage]

Originally posted by Solomwi
I think that's the same build queue fanes7 used to generate a great leader in 3900 BC.

You're right. He got his GL with a settler killing an unlucky elite barb. And it was in 3950BC. The barb had already got into the capital.

[Solomwi]

Mea culpa, MS. Definitely can't cheat fanes out of that 50 years.

[Drakan]

Originally posted by RMS
After the 1st 40 or so turns if it is plainly obvious that you cannot win the game, I would suggest starting a new one. In chess, a lot is learned by losing, and in CivIII as well. But one thing to learn in both is that there comes a time when it's best to concede and start fresh.

I'm sorry RMS I don't agree. Thera have been some games in which I was certain after the first 60 turns that I was bound to lose. Then in the middle of my desert I had four oil pop up which I could use to trade and catch up. I think that if you are just out for a casual play and expect no fuss, then you can quit if its blatant you are bound to lose. If not, if you want to learn and the challenge, and who knows perhaps even win, you might as well keep playing until the bitter (or sweet) end. You can never be sure of the outcome in this game.

Must say I finished this month a game with the Persians at Emperor and won the space race (accelerated production on). I did not build a single granary in the first 100 or more turns because all my empire was in alluvial soil (lucky me ) so there was just no need to build them because the population increased ever so quickly, and I did not have the Pyramids built, although I later stole it, errr that is to say I borrowed it from the Babilonians .

[Cort Haus]

Drakann, I think you'll find that most players around here don't play with accelerated production on. If you prefer it that way then fine, but unfortunately you might not be able to compare your strategies with others so easily, as acc. prod. makes a slightly different game than the standard rules which I expect most posters play around here.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Drakann


Must say I finished this month a game with the Persians at Emperor and won the space race (accelerated production on). I did not build a single granary in the first 100 or more turns because all my empire was in alluvial soil (lucky me ) so there was just no need to build them because the population increased ever so quickly, and I did not have the Pyramids built, although I later stole it, errr that is to say I borrowed it from the Babilonians .

Alluvial, sounds like you played some Moo3. Anyway no matter how much food you have you could reduce the cost a growth with a granary.

I guess that is not an issue with AP on. I DL a game from someone with it enabled, but found it to be depressing. Settlers pop out every time you turn around. If speed of play was my concern, I would play more RTS.

[Drakan]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Drakann, I think you'll find that most players around here don't play with accelerated production on. If you prefer it that way then fine, but unfortunately you might not be able to compare your strategies with others so easily, as acc. prod. makes a slightly different game than the standard rules which I expect most posters play around here.

How is that so? Could you please elaborate.

I play with or without AP. I cannot see the how the difference may affect your gameplay dramatically. Units churn out quicker, the game doesn't hover much over the Ancient Age, and you end up quicker in the Modern Times.

If you consistently win (all random options) at Emperor, AP is only a tweak and is hardly going to affect your strats. Besides, there are no fixed strats, IMHO, in this game. A skilled player resembles a plumber who knows how and when to use the appropiate tools he has at hand.

If I play with an expansionist civ (i.e. americans) I build 3 or 4 scouts before any settlers to find techs in goody huts, or find other civs etc... It depends what level your playing at, what civ you have chosen...I only wrote down that building queue as a generalisation. I normally do it that way BUT if I happen to start in a floodplain I choose another strat (I.E. build no granary until much later on).

The opening moves, be it 50, 60 or whatever are key, but not decisive, to the final outcome of the game, regardless of having AP selected.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Drakann

Besides, there are no fixed strats, in my humble opinion, in this game. A skilled player resembles a plumber who knows how and when to use the appropiate tools he has at hand.

Yes, a skilled player will operate according to their civ traits and the external conditions, but some specific openings (and we are talking about openings here) are quantitative, like the Archer Rush. When discussing how many to build and from how many cities, I'd have thought the spt is significant.

I've only played a couple of games with AP but found it had a notably different feel to it - especially build times and unit counts. Configuring cities to optimise production/growth priorities is different and setting up settler pumps involves a different rhythm.

Having said this, Drakken, you've probably played more AP than I have, so if you've found it doesn't change the game much for you then that's your experience, so fair enough.

I still think you're short of warriors in that build queue though

[Drakan]

Yes Cort Haus, you are right. I should have added some warrior for scouting purposes. xnks for the feedback

[Aramis]

Originally posted by Drakann

I think that if you are just out for a casual play and expect no fuss, then you can quit if its blatant you are bound to lose. If not, if you want to learn and the challenge, and who knows perhaps even win, you might as well keep playing until the bitter (or sweet) end. You can never be sure of the outcome in this game.

Quitting because one is only out for casual play and no fuss? That's not what I meant. In some chess games there can come a point where continued movement is literally a countdown to the inevitible checkmate--that's the time to concede. In Civ, no matter how much oil popped up or techs were gained, there can also come a point when the AI is virtually poised for a checkmate: through cultural victory, for example, or domination victory, as another. On small maps, on high levels this can come fairly early.
The point at which I'd advocate resigning is the point where victory for the AI is assured.
This happens to me when playing at higher levels. It doesn't keep me from trying over and over to master higher levels (if I didn't I'd still be on chieftain ). It just means I know when it's time to start afresh.

btw--y'know, I do like a nice casual game with no fuss every now and then

[Vince278]

More often now, I find myself quitting after the game advances to the point where my hardware rapidly becomes unable to process the turns. Its the most common cause for a premature end to the game now.

[Drakan]

Originally posted by RMS

Quitting because one is only out for casual play and no fuss? That's not what I meant. In some chess games there can come a point where continued movement is literally a countdown to the inevitible checkmate--that's the time to concede. In Civ, no matter how much oil popped up or techs were gained, there can also come a point when the AI is virtually poised for a checkmate: through cultural victory, for example, or domination victory, as another. On small maps, on high levels this can come fairly early.
The point at which I'd advocate resigning is the point where victory for the AI is assured.
This happens to me when playing at higher levels. It doesn't keep me from trying over and over to master higher levels (if I didn't I'd still be on chieftain ). It just means I know when it's time to start afresh.

btw--y'know, I do like a nice casual game with no fuss every now and then

Right, now I catch your drift RMS. Yes I agree. In the cases you mention afore I guess quitting would be intelligent and justified.

The advise of not quitting was intended solely for newbies. If you are now Monarch or above, it doesn't apply to you of course.

[Aramis]

Originally posted by Vince278
More often now, I find myself quitting after the game advances to the point where my hardware rapidly becomes unable to process the turns. Its the most common cause for a premature end to the game now.

RMS' Guilty Pleasure: I had the same problem. I went out and bought a new computer specifically so I wouldn't have any problems playing Civ. I still tell my friends and family I did it because I sometimes use my home computer for work.

[Vince278]

I'll do that eventually.

[JereL]

I'm still somewhat new to emperor difficulty and find that the AI is very rapid with it's expansion. I try to keep up with that by pumping out my settlers ASAP when my city goes pop 3. This goes on with at least the first 3-4 cities. The only problem is that I might start to catch up on the AI in terms of expansion but usually by the time the free space runs out they start asking for techs and then declare war as I don't want to fork over the latest achievements to them free of charge.

I did some reading in the strategy section concerning REXing and am still finding myself with a few questions. I read that two settler pumps is only required, but how to set them up, do I just build road all around the cities or do I also build mines? At the start there's only one worker to go around, if I expand rapidly the other cities won't be connected for quite some time. Then there's also the task of connecting the found resources.
Seems that also it's not so good to put out the settlers as soon as the city goes pop 3? OTOH if you do then there's time to build another unit as the city grows. I guess I need more army to deter the AI from declaring war on me. Very challenging.