Numidian Mercenaries

[sfgreenday]

So I'm playing this game (60%, continents, culturally linked starts) as the Inca when the first tribe I run into is Carthage (followed by Egypt, Byzantium, and Rome). It hadn't occurred to me before that the Numidian Mercenary (NM) was 2.3.1 !!!

I had picked up 4 or so conscript warriors, built a few archers and horsemen and was going to take them out early in the hopes of getting a GL and their ivory (Carthage has built the Statue of Zeus). Then when I saw what they were defending their cities with, I pulled back. I have finally attacked, now having Med Inf, but their NMs are a royal pain due to their pikeman-like defense and their reasonable counterattack.

So, my point is, is the NM too strong (even at 30 shields) for too long (from the ancient age to gunpowder)?

[vmxa1]

Civs with super defenders like Greece and Hannibal are best left till later. Then their UU is not so hot. If you can muster an army to attach those units, then it is a different story.

AC and Nums are going to be hard to over come in the ancient age.

But I don't see them as over powered.

[Arrian]

Nah, the Numid is fine at 30 shields. I don't think it's that great a unit, actually, despite facing a horde of them in one of the PTW Demogames (pbem games played by teams). 30 shields is a lot to come up with early on.

I'd rather have a hoplite (same d, 2/3 the cost). It's not like I attack with Numids more than once or twice a game. I build attack units for that.

-Arrian

[Solomwi]

They can be a royal pain, though, eh, Arrian?

[MotownDennis]

I agree with the consensus here. They are an average UU - not too strong, not too weak (for the cost).

[sfgreenday]

So I took four cities from them after waging a LONG war in a Republic (probably should have switched to Monarchy earlier). One of them was Carthage, which netted me 2 Ivories and the Statue of Zeus. I managed to get a GL, which I used to build an army just as I discovered Chivalry. Put a couple Knights in there and they did their job.

Egypt decided to attack (they had to come through Carthage territory) the next turn after peace, and I used them to further upgrade my troops, getting two more GLs (one for an army, another for the FP, in Carthage).

Just got Mil Trad, going to finish off Carthage soon.

As for NM strength, maybe you guys are right. However, I don't want to get stuck next to them early on again.

[vmxa1]

Sounds like you handled it just fine. Maybe the next time they will not also have Zues.

[Nakar Gabab]

Rather have a Hoplite, or better yet, a Swiss Merc, but Numidians are just fine the way they are. Carthage is a heck of an early defender, and a great choice for a peaceful builder type (much like Greece, although I like Carthage's traits better). If you're going up against Hannibal or Alex in the AA, you may as well wait. William, attack early. Joan... well, are you really that scared of defensive bombard?

[Kloreep]

Numidians are basically pikes you can build early, with a bonus to attack in case you need them for mopping up wounded units. I don't think that's overpowered.

It's the Hoplites that have all the power...

[Kuciwalker]

Don't forget Enkidus. Those are quite nice.

[gunkulator]

NM are OK. Recall that the same 30 shields would also build the 3/3/1 Legionary, the 4/2/1 Immortal and 3/1/2 Mounted Warrior - much better units although they need resources. The 30 shield 2/2/1 Javelin Thrower is a no resource UU that can truly be awesome with a little luck.

It's the Hoplite and Swiss Merc that are the real bargains IMHO.

[Kuciwalker]

Also the Musketeer, to a degree.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Nakar Gabab
Joan... well, are you really that scared of defensive bombard?

The problem with attacking joan, isn't the unit, but rather the GA triggering in the medieval age. They can get much more mileage out of it than others due to the likely republic and moderately advanced civ. Attack the dutch? Their GA will at most produce other SM's and MI's. French will spit out knights and musketeers. I've made that mistake (granted, a few years ago) and a few turns into the war was facing swarms of em. Granted, I was a noob at the time, but its something you have to keep in mind.

I like NMs, but rarely play as carthage. I would much rather have an ancient offensive unit like the MW

[spy14]

My favorite from this period is the legionary, taking into account the Romans militaristic trait.

[Jon Shafer]

I like NMs a lot.

They have excellent defense, and also a good attack. When it comes down to large stack warfare, not only can you depend on your Swordsmen to be able to deliver a strong attack, you can use your excellent defenders for that role as well.

As pillagers NMs are horrible to have to deal with. Their defense is amazing (try taking these guys out when all you got is Archers), and they also have a strong enough attack to take out units that might be defending enemy tiles (Warriors especially).