Do I not understand the game?

[bobpfef]

I've just started playing vanilla Civ3 and have only played a few games. However I played a lot of Civ2 when that was out. Anyway, here is what happened the last game I played. I am very confused about the outcome. I am not sure if I just don't understand the game or it this is a bug or what the deal is. Anyway, this is what happened.

I started off on an island by myself. I finally found another issue I could reach and the Zulu were on that. We had a major war, lasting many many turns, and as such I got behind with the tech. Well, the game keeps going, finally we are down to 3 civs, myself (Roma), France and Russa. France and Russia share a major land mass and I don't have much room. France gets into the Space Race around 1700 and I am so far behind in tech there is no way I can catch up. So I decided to build up a large army and launch a big attack on Paris. After some build up I land on France, take over Paris and another near by town. Put large armies in both towns to stop the resistance and to stop them from converting back to France. After my turn France moves, tries to get the towns back, loses many units but I still hold on to them. After Russia moves the "You have been defeated" screen pops up. It was still in the 1700s so there should be many more turns left. What happened? Why did I lose? Is there some game concept I just don't grasp? Could this have somethind to do with the UN? (Russia had built it).

Help me out here, thanks!

[Antrine]

Yes, there are many victory conditions, check each one at start-up. You could lose by 'culture' or domination, space race as you already know and now there are others as well, some though maybe not in vanilla but certainly been added to Conquests.

[bobpfef]

I am playing vanilla Civ3.

I don't think it was culture as I took out the captial of France and took over the 4 wonders in there, so *I* should get some culture points for that at least. He lost 2 cities and won the game? He did not get any more land, and I don't see how he could have gained more culture. The only thing I can think of is somehow the UN victory thing, but I am not sure how that worked. When it was first built everyone voted for themselves but that was the last I heard of it.

But when I did lose it also never said WHY I lost. It didn't say you lost because of culture victory by France or anything like that. Frustrating.

[vmxa1]

Check the F8 screen for the score. If it shows France or Russia with 100,000 in culture and the next largest is less than half that it is a culture victory.

A single city that has 20,000 in cluture wins.

If they launched their space ship, they win.

If the UN was built and an election was held, they could win by diplomacy.

If one civ has 2/3 of the land and pop they win (Domination).

Look at the High Score file:

HighScore.cv3 format
civname A nnnnn B C D
A = the civ race counting from the list shown in the hall of fame. That is 22 would be Arabs.
B = level counting Chief as 0.
C = type of vic/loss
VictoryType: Domination(0), Conquest(1), Cultural(2), Diplomatic(3), Spacerace(4), Retired(5), Histograph(6)
D = 1 means won 2 means lost

nnnnn is your final score.


You can tell what happened.

[Antrine]

Culture is cumulative, so even though you took their main cities it may have been too late. Other scoring points are cumulative, so even if thrashed them they could still rack up more points by fighting to near death.

[Robert]

Doesn't the defeat screen tell you how you lost?
I think I've never seen any defeat screen

[vmxa1]

I think it does, but I already know why I lost when I do and I have seen quite a few on Sid, not to mention the games I stopped after one turn to test something.

Anyway the HighScore will tell using the above guide.

[bobpfef]

Okay, thanks guys. I will dig up that high score file and see what happened. It sounds like I lost by culture, but we'll see for sure.

[MotownDennis]

When you get the "defeat" pop-up, it actually DOES tell how you lost. You have to read it carefully. It'll say "You have suffered a humiliating conquest defeat" or "You have suffered a humiliating cultural defeat" or something such.

My suggestion would be to reload and replay that last turn then read the pop-up carefully.

[bobpfef]

Okay, I replayed the last turn. It said, "You have suffered a humilating defeat" That was it, no mention of what type of defeat. Then I dug up up the HighScore.cv3 file and saw that I lost because of reason 4, which looks to be the space race. However, I thought if I took the capital city that civ can't win by space, or was that just a civ 2 thing?

[vondrack]

Are you sure it was the Frenchies launching the spaceship (since, yes, you are right that taking someone's capital destroys his spaceship)? Could it be the Russkies? Have you had a spy with Russia?

EDIT: Would you be able to post the save just before the game ended?

[bobpfef]

I am thinking that it must be Russia. I haven't figured out the whole spy system of Civ III yet, so I might have messed that up, but I thought I had a spy in Russa. I'll post the replay tonight when I get home for work. Thanks for all your help guys!

[vondrack]

You can easily tell whether you have a spy with another nation or not - if you can see units of another nation in the F3 screen, then you have a spy with them. Similarly, if the spacerace screen shows exact numbers of parts finished and/or under construction, then you have a spy with the respective nation.

[dunk]

Originally posted by bobpfef
However, I thought if I took the capital city that civ can't win by space, or was that just a civ 2 thing?

In Civ III, the capital moves instantaneously if you capture it. So when you captured Paris, the French capital became some other city. There's no time when a Civ is without a capital.

[Kloreep]

As dunk says, the capital moves immediately; it does not have to be re-built.

However, as vondrack says, any spaceship parts built by that civ so far are destroyed when their capitol is taken; so it's very unlikely the French would be able to build a complete spaceship just one turn after their capitol was taken. It's probably the Russians.