Details of Traits Changes

[Arrian]

And again, if you start in an area short on fresh water city sites, the 1/2 cost aqueducts become a real help! 50 shields off for every city that needs an aqueduct is pretty big - especially given that you will want to build them in the late ancient/early medieval age, when mustering 100 shields is a big deal. This is one of the reasons I think the Dutch kick so much ass. They can found a bundle of coastal towns that can hit size7+ w/o huge shield investments.

-Arrian

[gunkulator]

If you don't have fresh water, get a ROP with a neighbor who does and then go in and irrigate. If you can't get a ROP, I've found that you can sometimes "steal" water. A friendly AI will often ignore a lone worker in its territory. Dig an irrigation trench all the way to your border. Of course, sometimes they just can't resist the tempation...

[albiedamned]

Originally posted by gunkulator
If you don't have fresh water, get a ROP with a neighbor who does and then go in and irrigate. If you can't get a ROP, I've found that you can sometimes "steal" water. A friendly AI will often ignore a lone worker in its territory. Dig an irrigation trench all the way to your border. Of course, sometimes they just can't resist the tempation...

That all works for getting to irrigate land which you otherwise couldn't irrigate until Electricity, but I assume that doesn't count towards whether the city gets the bonus food in the city center square.

[gunkulator]

The city food bonus is strictly based on gov't. In Despotism and Anarachy, you don't get it. In all other gov'ts, you do. Even in Despotism, you get the bonus for irrigating desert.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by albiedamned
Ok I get it now. Basically in SP most people think Agri is the best because they'll just restart if they don't see fresh water at first. I do realize that getting to the +5fpt for worker or settler pumps gives a huge edge in early game expansion. But in MP, where restarting isn't an option, I would think taking Agri is a huge risk! If you don't get fresh water, then you're screwed. Yeah the cheaper Aqueducts and desert irrigation bonus are nice, but those don't come into play during the early expansion phase. I've never played MP Civ3 myself, so I'm just speculating.

In MP, the "fresh water start" rate for AGR civs is well over 90%. They're taken almost exclusively in MP above and beyond any other civ - Zulu and Egypt being the exceptions.

If you'd like to play a lil' MP Civ3, click the link in the sig.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by gunkulator
The city food bonus is strictly based on gov't. In Despotism and Anarachy, you don't get it. In all other gov'ts, you do. Even in Despotism, you get the bonus for irrigating desert.

This is incorrect; a Despotic AGR civ starting on a lake or river will get the food bonus.

[Tripledoc]

Originally posted by Solomwi
And Krill's right on Industrious having only a 50% bonus. Agricultural also gets half price aqueducts.

I think I've read they also get halfprice solar energyplants, but I have never played an agricultural civ to te modern age so I am not sure.

On another note seafaring gives halfprice habours too. And I think halfprice commercial docks as well, but I am not sure about that either.

[Last Conformist]

A quick look in the ol' Editor tells us that Commercial Docks, Coastal Fortesses, and Offshore Platforms are marked as Seafaring, in addition to the Habours.

Someone mentioned Solar Plants - they're Agricultural, for Sid knows what reason.

As a curiosum, it may be mentioned that SS parts can be flagged as Sea or Agr, but not as the old traits.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
In MP, the "fresh water start" rate for AGR civs is well over 90%.

Is this percentage higher than for non-ag tribes? IE is the increased chance of a fresh water start part of the agricultural trait?

[joncnunn]

Also, for some unknown reason, Agr civs get half priced of one of the modern era polution reducing facilities. (It's either Mass Transit or Recyling Centers, not both)

[Last Conformist]

It's the Recycling Center.

[bongo]

Also remember that under ptw/vanilla, slaves taken by industrious civs would work at 100%. In c3c, slaves work at 50%, industrious or not.

[albiedamned]

Yeah I've noticed that in my current game as the Mayans. Their combination of a slaver UU and industrious workers is overkill if you get into an ancient war. I fought almost the entire ancient era, and I captured 30 or so slaves. I have them working in teams of 3, which are equivalent to one of my regular (industrious) workers. Because I have so many, I have almost no need for my regular workers, thus negating my industrious trait.