Facism - C3C's least used government?

[Goethe80]

Feudalism used to be one of the most under-used governments, but given the number of threads in which it has popped up as a choice for many players in the recent months, it is now time to turn to another neglected government!

Fascism

I've barely seen this government mentioned at all in the forum despite the fact that it has several interesting capabilities.

4MP limit
4/7/10 unit support
No war weariness
200% worker productivity
republic level corruption
pop-rush

On paper, it appears to be the perfect modern war government (even has a little bonus of automatically reducing the population of captured cities..). The unit support is the highest for a developed civ, possibly excluding a very well developed democracy, and since there's no real need to hoard gold, research should be quite decent. It would also seem that the c3c designers have deemed fascism to be one of the strongest governments by giving it a terrible cost - losing approximately 20% of your population upon conversion.

I've played it a few times, and I greatly prefer Fascism to the other modern war government of Communism because I absolutely detest the shared corruption of Communism (makes wonder creation slow). Not to mention the fact that they've 'fixed' the secret police hq 'get-around'.

The ability to pop-rush coupled with the 4MP limit is also very useful for newly captured cities as well as faraway frontier cities. Food is not affected by corruption, so once you have a granery up and running in those cities, you ought to get decent 'whip' production out of them.

Anyway, I would like to get your comments on the usability of fascism, particularly compared with the other 'war' governments such as Communism, Monarchy and Feudalism. I think Monarchy actually makes tough competition because of the ability to pay-rush, coupled with good unit support.

[Rasputin]

havent got a game that far to gat to fascism yet , but current one should so wil llet you know

[Last Conformist]

Never seen a point in switching to Fascism. Why sacrifice an obscene amount of population and the standard tile bonus when I can conquer the world in Republic? That's not even mentioning the additional revolution freezing my civ for up to nine turns.

And if I really need a complete warmonger's gov't, commieness seems like the better option. Sure, it hurts my core's productivity, but what your building in a such scenario is units, and for that the national spt matters much more than that of the top few cities.

[Tall Stranger]

I tend to agree with Last Conformist here. The population loss is brutal, and the 4 MP limit is no different from Communism. The additional speed of workers (200% vs. 150% in Comm) just isn't worth much, since you should have a good number of workers anyway. In addition, if all you're cranking out is tanks and infantry, a slight increase in corruption of your core is unlikely to turn any of your 2-turn tank producers to 3-turn producers, so your REAL warmongering productivity won't decline much in your core, but will increase dramatically in your more distant cities. (Keep in mind tanks are 100 shields and infantry 90. Since you're unlikely to have 1-turn producers for either in your core, the best war productivity you can get is a 2-turn producer (50 or 45 spt). That's certainly achievable under communism.) Since you can also pop rush via Communism, I've yet to see a meaningful reason to try Fascism (I don't think I've ever researched it.)

[Jon Shafer]

I simply stick with Republic for my warmongering, except in the cases of hardcore wars... which I don't find myself in.

4 MP... So what? That's 4 units that you could be using on the front lines as a Republic. The difference in gold is so great that you can easily turn up the lux slider once or twice to account for war weariness and still make more gold.

[Jon Shafer]

Apolyton database error = double post.

[Krill]

Trip, what would you do if it was a KAI, and would not accept peace, and was graddually taking over your empire? What then? Fascism is a niche government, similar to feudalism, but it does have it's uses.

If you are a small religious civ, change to fascism, build up your units, and then when you have enough, torch your opponents to the ground.

Works for me

[Jon Shafer]

I've never been in the situation where I was losing a war to an AI civ by that point in the game.

[Rasputin]

i have

[Plotinus]

Facism? I haven't seen that in the game. It's FASCISM. FASCISM!! It has another S in the middle!! It is from FASCES, a bundle of rods used as a symbol of power by the Romans, and it has nothing to do with FACES. FASCISM! With an S!!

I'm going to go and have a calming mug of herbal tea now.

[Goethe80]

hahaha.. alright alright, top post has the spelling corrected
nothing i can do about the thread topic though

[Rasputin]

damn english hate typos ....

[Fistleaf]

I guess if you have a medium sized empire and you do not want to expand your empire anymore, you can go Fascism and raze all enemy cities, winning by conquest (or culture!).

[ZEE]

the biggest problem i find with fascism is that NO CULTURE is generated in newly captured cities until a POPULAR majority of your citizens has been dominant in the city. this greatly hurts culture for newly captured metropolis' and takes time to pop-rush everything until your citizens are the majority, not to mention the fact that you are killing off your work force, be they foreign nationals or not.

personally i stick with democracy the whole game AS SOON as i get it. i know how to get around war weariness, i usually have a HUGE army thanks to my early on monarchy, and my economy is, say, every 4 turns. bigger cities = more $.

[planetfall]

Used to be viable

When C3C came out Facism was the perfect War Monger government. Now that communism is so strong and doesn't have the zenophobic penality even though in RL communistic governments usually start off by killing 2x the number of citizens of fascist govt's, there is very rare situation when it might be viable. Only viable when you have not RRed and need 2x worker speed. Otherwise the 2x speed to clean up pollution is meaningless. Even if communism is adjusted so SPHQ is no longer availble, the free support in communism is just too strong.

PF