Fundamental Decision

[MoonWolf]

It depends a lot if you're looking into a long game that reaches into modern times or not. I like long games, so I often like to play Germany, and I think it would have been my choice for a random game. With the early archers you can weaken or "integrate" your neighbours at an early stage and use the military trait to get some leaders.

After you have gotten some leaders, you can use the scientific trait to boost your science and aim for those Panzers. With the previously aqcuired leaders, you should be able to build the military acadamy and armies. Fill those armies with Panzer and you'll get a 4 moving power unit able to take out cities quite deep in the enemy's territory without having to stay there for one turn (=war weariness)

And please don't complain so much about the agricultural trait, not all of us are sid-level-is-too-easy-players , and we don't want the makers to change it, do we?

In fact, it's possible to make every trait overpowered if agrumented correctly. Remember, only humans can exploit the features of the game 100%. The AI can't, it only follows algoritms and what if's with some random stuff to spice it up.

[TheArsenal]

I have to agree India is a good choice if all else is random. Beside good traits, the UU requiring no resources plays heavily into the equation for me. Random maps can be cruel, particularly with the resource scarcity of C3C. The War Elephant allows for some degree of flexibility in when (never “whether”) to nab eventual resources, if lacking.

[spy14]

Im more of a modern game player than ancient times, so I like any industrious civ, preferably with commercial attached. America suits me because you also get the expansionist trait to use in the early game.

[MotownDennis]

The Aztecs are incredibly powerful and good for those that enjoy a combo warmongering/peaceful builder game.

[Krill]

There are several powerful Agricultural civs: Iroquois, Dutch, Sumeria, Celts.

You forgot the Maya, Arrian. They are great on anything but 80% water archi maps.

My favorite is Carthage, and I prefer to play industrial civs. I rarely play out a game after I've dug myself out of the "Hole", since the game gets tedious and nothing changes in the play style needed to win.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Arnelos


ALL agricultural cities benefit from the +1 food bonus once you switch out of Despotism. Granted, that means having no fresh water cities in the early game means the trait will be largely useless during that period, but once you switch into Republic, Monarchy, or Feudalism, you'll be in excellent shape... +1 food in every single city and half price aqueducts to boot.

Frankly, agricultural is incredibly overpowered.

Yes, but in my opinion the explosive power of Agricultural comes from having that +1 food per turn right from the get-go. Not having it until you make a government switch reduces its power, enough that I think one could argue for other traits.

Krill: I didn't forget the Maya. They're decent, but not great, IMO. Industrious is no longer all that powerful, and the UU is very expensive for mediocre combat ability - and even when you factor in slaves from barbs, unless you get raging barbs on a largish map, I don't think they are worth the 30 shields. I'd rather have a more useful unit. The Maya are certainly a good civ, just not a top tier civ, IMO.

-Arrian

[Whoha]

The US, industrious is of course great, and even if I start on a small landmass I'll know about it faster :P

[vmxa1]

America suffered a bit from the lowering of Industrial in C3C.

[spy14]

Turning this thread onto its head, who do you think is the weakest choice? My votes with portugal for its expansionist/seafaring combo

[bongo]

Hope you're kidding , I just got portugal in a PBEM

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by MoonWolf And please don't complain so much about the agricultural trait, not all of us are sid-level-is-too-easy-players , and we don't want the makers to change it, do we?

The problem of balancing the civ traits becomes more important if they are present in PBEM and MP games. Players with the agricultural trait on river starting locations have a fairly sizable advantage.

[Arnelos]

For worst civ...

Candidates:

Mongols, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Korea (still...), Hittites IF w/o horses, America.

[Vince278]

I just started a game with a seafaring/industrial (Carthage, I think). Starting stats are: 256x256, 31 civ, distance 40, 80% archi., tech turns 8/150, tech rate 1000, conquest victory. I'll see where this leads me...

[Arnelos]

Originally posted by Vince278
I just started a game with a seafaring/industrial (Carthage, I think).

Correct, that would be Carthage. I love playing Carthage.

[MotownDennis]

Originally posted by Arnelos
For worst civ...

Candidates:

Mongols, Russia, Spain, Portugal, Korea (still...), Hittites IF w/o horses, America.

I can't argue with too many of those, other than maybe America.

No "crappy" civ list would be complete without Germany, though. Yuck.