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  • The Byzantines

    I have decided to do a review on each CIV. My intention is to encourage debate and hopefully to help others (and myself) in their game play.

    The Byzantines

    Just off the coast of that peaceful AI Civ awaits certain doom. An armada of transport ships loaded with troops and escorted by the finest warships known to man has arrived at their launch point. The rain of flames that will descend on the enemy cities and ships is an irresistible force. This review is of that seafaring nightmare known by the name of the Byzantines.

    Seafaring and Scientific, the Byz have a set of traits that in combination results in game play that is uniquely different from most of the other Civs. With the starting techs of Alphabet and Bronze Working the Byz have 2 of the most valued techs by the AIs – this in turn leads to a very strong position at the bargaining table come tech trading time. Early on it is not uncommon for the Byz to keep up in tech even with the goody hut-popping expansionist Civs. The Seafaring trait produces extra commerce in cities built on the coast, gives a half priced discount on harbors, increases ship range by 1 and most importantly decreases the chances of sinking out at sea prior to Astronomy. The ‘suicide galley strat’ is one that you must use - and use extensively! This last attribute alone (in the hands of a human) makes the Seafaring trait unmatched on Arch maps and quite strong on Cont maps. The AI is supremely stupid with Seafaring in that it will never attempt a suicide run for contact – the generally poor AI handling of this trait makes newer players mistake Seafaring as a weak trait.

    Working along with Seafaring, is the Byz Scientific trait giving a boost to science research, producing the occasional SGL and most importantly providing the half priced libraries and universities that the Byz will build in order to keep up in the tech race, and quite often dominate it. The 2 traits are simply deadly on Arch maps – the ability to get strong tech research even when isolated, a head start on the Writing/Literature/Map Making research path and the Seafaring advantage of early ‘first’ contacts that establishes diplomatic and commercial dominance. For obvious reasons the Byz should quite often consider targeting the ‘seafaring’ Great Wonders – the Great Lighthouse being the most invaluable. This Great Wonder combined with a decent start can quite often leave your game victory in no doubt very early on. The Republic to Demo government line is well suited for this Civ.

    The Byz UU is the dreaded Droman. Available with Map Making and replacing the Galley, the Droman is the absolute terror of the seas for well over an entire age! A 30 shield 2-1-3 super-galley with a transport capacity of 2 and ‘bombard ability’, the Droman can more than hold its own even with the advent of Caravels. The most controversial aspect of the Droman is its bombard ability. The Byz can play absolute havoc with enemy coastlines – delaying and retarding enemy growth to the point of a standstill – it is a ‘pillager’ second to none. In the role of amphibious escort/transport there simply is nothing like it in the game. Invading with near impunity (galleys and caravels are loath to intercept this monster) the Droman is unique in that its job has only really just begun. The enemy city will be treated to a ‘stream of fire’ reducing the defense strength of the units within, also once the city is taken the Droman can enter the city itself and provide bombard service to the responding AI units in the surrounding inland squares, and thus greatly diminish the AIs counter-attack power. The Droman will rule the seas until the advent of Frigate class warships.

    The Byz are supremely well suited for the ‘balance of power’ type player, the player that likes to alternate between wars and peace – culture building and warmongering. A nice mid-sized core empire along with numerous far away Colonies (overseas captured coastal cities that provide strategic or luxury resources) is a Byz staple. As a warmongering CIV they dominate on Arch maps and do ‘nicely’ on Conts maps. As a culture Civ the cheap science buildings will have the Byz more than hold their own against a good half of the Civs in the game. On Pang maps the Civs value is drastically reduced, one upside however is that the Droman can still be put to good use even on Pang maps.

    There are 3 primary downsides to this Civ. First and foremost is the map dependant nature of the Seafaring trait, like Expansionist on Arch maps – Seafaring on Pang maps is reduced to the status of a mere ‘afterthought’. Secondly, despite the fearsome nature of the Droman, it is quite awkward to properly initiate your GA with it – especially with the AI sea vessels running like hell in your presence! You will often times be forced to initiate a war of ‘expediency’ when there is a handy target vessel around. Thirdly, the Byz are generally ‘slow starters’ – without the REX advantages that other traits give, the Byz are often playing a game of catch-up. On a Conts map with the Germans and the Mongols as neighbors – a good deal of early ‘boot-licking’ is often in order. An early land based war will often ****** your own growth severely. That said, on Arch maps the Byz are second to none!

    Summary: An undisputed 1st tier Civ on Arch maps, a 2nd tier Civ on Conts maps and a below average 3rd tier Civ on Pang maps: the Byzantines average out to an overall 2nd tier Civ. With its unique trait combo and fascinating UU, the Byz popularity will continue to be among the highest in the game.

    The Persians
    The Mongols
    The Greeks
    The Americans
    The Egyptians
    The Babylonians
    The Romans
    The Chinese
    The Germans
    Last edited by Ision; May 2, 2004, 13:46.
    Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

  • #2
    We should get ZargonX to comment on this civ, since he seems to be obsessed with playing them in every single PBEM game he's in (ever since AU 501, anyhow).
    Long-time poster on Apolyton and WePlayCiv
    Consul of Apolyton from the 1st Civ3 Inter-Site Democracy Game (ISDG)
    7th President of Apolyton in the 1st Civ3 Democracy Game

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    • #3
      I had a few plays with the Byzantines and must confess that on an archipelago map, they do rock (well, who wants to play them on pangea anyway?).

      The Dromon is the absolute shark of the seas until the advent of Frigates. It comes in very handy not only for pillaging coastlines (I seldom do that, since I have to rebuilt everything afterwards...), but especially to weaken a counterattack. Conquer a costal town, 'land' some Dromons and fire all the approaching enemy units. Fire-breathing cannon! One age before!

      As for the Byzantines being slow-starters, who cares when you play on archipelago? Your home island rexxing is over after 4-8 cities anyway. Time to explore the wide world.
      The only inconvenience I had a couple of times with the Dromon was when a stupid barbs galley came too close. Imagine, a barbs galley dictating my GA!

      Yes, the Byzantines are the only civ worth playing with on archipelago, besides Scandinavia, of course.
      The Mountain Sage of the Swiss Alps

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      • #4
        We should get ZargonX to comment on this civ, since he seems to be obsessed with playing them in every single PBEM game he's in (ever since AU 501, anyhow).
        It's true Ision hit most of the high points of the Byzantine, which are the main reasons I play with them.

        I might also add that the Byzantine starting techs give them an excellent jumping point for the Philosophy beeline, which can snag them MM (and the Dromon) for free, and much earlier. As for other good points of the Byz, well, I'll show you my AARs when some of these PBEMs wrap up
        I make movies. Come check 'em out.

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        • #5
          Re: The Byzantines

          Nice article, as usual. I agree with most of what you wrote, except:

          Originally posted by Ision
          With the starting techs of Alphabet and Bronze Working the Byz have 2 of the most valued techs by the AIs – this in turn leads to a very strong position at the bargaining table come tech trading time.
          The AI doesn't value Bronze Working very highly for trade, it just researches it at top priority. This means that when the Byzantines meet an AI civ, that civ will be well on their way to having already researched Bronze Working, so it will not give them much in exchange for it.

          The Republic to Demo government line is well suited for this Civ.
          This depends on your strategy, of course. If you are building tons of Dromons for bombardment, your unit support costs might be too high, so you might be better of starting with Monarchy. I went directly Monarchy-to-Communuism in AU 501, for example.

          The Byz UU is the dreaded Droman.
          Ahem...

          despite the fearsome nature of the Droman, it is quite awkward to properly initiate your GA with it – especially with the AI sea vessels running like hell in your presence!
          Did you know that when you bombard a city that contains another ship, the ship is targeted first? With lethal sea bombardment, all you have to do is find an AI galley, follow it to port, and then kill it there to start your GA.

          the Byz are generally ‘slow starters’ – without the REX advantages that other traits give, the Byz are often playing a game of catch-up.
          The slow growth is surely offset by the early boost in the tech race, since with early contact monopolies you can act as a middle man for tech brokering.

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          • #6
            I, too, am fascinated with this civ and have tried them quite a few times.

            I've never been able to get a great game going with them though. They are so SLOOOOOW to get rolling. Yes, they can keep pace tech-wise, which helps, but their expansion is just so darned snail-like. I believe that if you can make it through the early game in good shape, you'll be able to dominate from the middle ages onward.

            All in all, a very fun and interesting new civ.
            "Got the rock from Detroit, soul from Motown"
            - Kid Rock "American Badass"

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            • #7
              I agree that the starting tech of Alphabet is very useful for early trades, but I'm not so sure about Bronze Working. The AI tends to almost always research that first, and by the time you get around to meeting them, they will have already finished researching that or are 1/2way there. Either way, the value of Bronze Working for tech trading is quite low.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Sage
                The only inconvenience I had a couple of times with the Dromon was when a stupid barbs galley came too close. Imagine, a barbs galley dictating my GA!
                You probably should have let them get a little closer, since barbs can't trigger your GA.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Sage
                  The only inconvenience I had a couple of times with the Dromon was when a stupid barbs galley came too close. Imagine, a barbs galley dictating my GA!
                  Barbs can't trigger a GA.


                  Nice post as usual Ision. Yes, the Byzantines are formidable on Archipelago, as AU501 proved. Seafaring in combination with Scientific makes you almost unstoppable in the tech race once you're set up properly. Cheap Libraries and Universities, lots of coastal cities with the commerce bonus and the research pace can be awesome.

                  EDIT: oops, Trip beat me to it
                  So if you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy and some taste
                  Use all your well-learned politesse, or I'll lay your soul to waste

                  Re-Organisation of remaining C3C PBEMS

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                  • #10
                    Alexman,

                    Please remember that the reviews are vast 'generaliztions' - so when I say Republic to Demo is suited for X, or Monarchy to Commie is suited for Y - I am merely generalizing based on the starting techs, CIV traits and the most common play-style that is usually applied to that specific CIV.

                    Did you know that when you bombard a city that contains another ship, the ship is targeted first? With lethal sea bombardment, all you have to do is find an AI galley, follow it to port, and then kill it there to start your GA.
                    Yes I did know that - and I would say that this would still qualify as an 'awkward' method of initiating a GA in comparison to 27 of the other CIVs.

                    The slow growth is surely offset by the early boost in the tech race, since with early contact monopolies you can act as a middle man for tech brokering.
                    The review must take into account all map types - not just the map type in which the CIV excels the most, that said - all things considered the Byz REX is very average on a 'whole' - fast on arch & slow on pang.

                    Thanks for your input.

                    Ision
                    Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

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                    • #11
                      Good review. It made me try a Byz game for the first time.

                      I chose large arch map, but 60% water. That was a mistake. What I got was a world with 1 stringy large continent with lots of thin peninsulas, along with many outrigger islets.

                      Of course, all the civ's started on this big continent. This was bad for my Byz, I couldn't out-REX (on Monarch) the Russians and Arabs and Mayans who surrounded me.

                      Moral of the story is if you choose Archipeligo map with the Byzantines, I'd suggest 70 or 80 percent water...
                      Let Them Eat Cake

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                      • #12
                        I got the same thing once, playing vanilla with the English, Mace. Set up a huge arch. map and got a long, thin pangea, with maybe Japan and/or Spain stuck on islands themselves. Then found out I had it on 60% water.
                        Solomwi is very wise. - Imran Siddiqui

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Sage
                          It comes in very handy not only for pillaging coastlines (I seldom do that, since I have to rebuilt everything afterwards...)
                          I don't do it to the nearby land of AI civs that I'll soon be acquiring... but H*TDAMN you can mess with the more distant AIs somethin' awful!!

                          Very good post, Ision. Is there one of these threads that you would want me to link to in the Must Reads, with a description of the series?
                          The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                          Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

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                          • #14
                            Is there one of these threads that you would want me to link to in the Must Reads, with a description of the series?
                            I am not sure what you mean. But there is no single 'thread' that only contains the links to all of them at this site. If you feel it merits such let me know.

                            Ision
                            Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

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                            • #15
                              I was figuring on creating a link to one of them, with a description that that thread would have links to the rest. Make sense?
                              The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

                              Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

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