about mongol

[Last Conformist]

On land, Berserks doesn't offer too much of an advantage over Medievals, since it you're going to go slow, you can bring along a pile of Trebuchets for the shields you save, and attack weakened defenders instead.

And to maximize the usefulness of their amphibious abilities, the conditions must be just right - it's a bit too context-dependent for my tastes.

The Immortal would be in for the fourth slot in my book. It rules the ancient age, no matter what numbermongering Legionary aficionados might say.

[gunkulator]

Sipahi is indeed the best - if you can get it. You need both Horses and Saltpeter. Immortals just need Iron, which is the most crucial resource anyway. Sipahi used to be my favorite, but ever since C3C and its confounded resource scarcity, I have started to prefer the Persians.

Likewise with the Knight UU's. I rarely get both Iron and Horses now so any UU that eliminates one of them is a good bet. Even makes the Indians worth a look.

Immortal is a 30 shield Med Inf available early in the Ancient era. You can cripple your neighbors before they have a chance to grow strong. Yes, they're slow but their reasonably high defense will wither most counter-attacks. Bring along a couple Spearmen for fodder. At the time it is available, most other civs will be defending with fortified Spearmen in towns: 4 to 2.5 odds - not bad. Compare to Sipahi attacking fortified Muskets in cities: 8 to 7 odds.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by gunkulator
Yes, they're slow but their reasonably high defense will wither most counter-attacks.

Tell that to Vox Controli... *snicker*

[Last Conformist]

Rarely get both Iron and Horses? I've not lacked either by the early medieval era since, well, Vanilla.

[Krill]

Tell that to Vox Controli... *snicker*

I wasn't around then, but from what I've seen, that statement above is just too true. Spearmen are a nessecity for all SoDs in the early game

[Jon Shafer]

Gallic Swordsmen are the best UU. I like them even more than Immortals because the extra mobility is so powerful when used properly.

I have a bunch of detailed posts about why the GS (and the Celts) are so good over at CFC in this thread. You can read my posts over there for my slant on things, I'd rather not have to type it all up again.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Yep. Gallic Swordman are #1

I'ld put the Mounted Warrior a close 2nd, even. 3 attack fast movers in the ancient...watch out.

I just feel that Agricultural is so overpowered I try to avoid them.

[Krill]

Is this a threadjack?

DO NOT forget hoplites, or even Numidian Mercs, 3 defense.
Or jags, pillaging everything in sight?

Or Enkidus?

My favorite is the Merc. So verstile, then the hoplite.

(And yes, I'm a builder who likes the early granery)

[gunkulator]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Rarely get both Iron and Horses? I've not lacked either by the early medieval era since, well, Vanilla.

Version? World size? I play C3C 1.15, typically standard world, continents.

Usually each continent will contain 4 civs, 2 Iron and 2 Horses. Occassionally I can get both. Trade is almost impossible since no Civ will have more than 1 resource so they won't trade it. Continents means only suicide Galleys can get to the other side of the world so no resource trading until Galleons.

[Theseus]

Re: about mongol

Whatta threadjack... sheesh.

And, by the way, threadjacking in a different direction:

Originally posted by forwax
Think of it, they had the grandest empire of all humankind, the best archer and warrior, and the fastest warrior unit...

Francis, are you kidding or what?

[Dominae]

The Mongols did rule over the largest empire in human history (and not for just a couple of years, either). If the history books are correct, they did so mainly through conquest and military rule, so I imagine their warriors were pretty darn kick-a$$.

I agree that Civ3 does not do the Mongols or their Keshiks justice. Then again, the Tribes are supposed to be more or less balanced...

[Jon Shafer]

The main reason the Mongolian army was so successful was because of their use of mounted archers, which were absent from any other army of the time. And those units were basically their entire army.

Not to mention the fact that Turkish tribesmen from the central Asian steppes actually outnumbered the ethnic Mongolian troops (which were also really no more than a patchwork of tribes). It was the charisma of Temujin that was able to unite them under a single "Mongolian" banner and sweep across all of Asia to found the largest empire the world has yet seen.

[/history major]

[forwax]

Re: Re: about mongol

Originally posted by Theseus
Whatta threadjack... sheesh.

And, by the way, threadjacking in a different direction:



Francis, are you kidding or what?

I think yes, by a fact (at least in history book), that they had the largest earthly connected empire of all time.

This tread was only intented to know what all of you thought about this peticular UU. I just tought that they didn't really respected history. If you take the german panzer UU for exemple, those are OK to my sense, even the roman UU are pretty much what I think about.

What you'd you do to make the keshik more attractive ?

[UnOrthOdOx]

As I said, the movement on mountains is a little silly without it also applying to hills.

Other than that, for game balance, I think it is fine.

[lmtoops]

This thread was offically jacked, so quit trying to take it back with all this Mongol stuff.

Gallic Swordsman are the bee's knees. They look cool, and they have the extra movement. Of course in C3C, be ready to pay 90g for the warrior to GS upgrade.

Source of frustration, you take along spearmen for defense (fodder), but the GS has has the same defense. So if you stack veteran spearman with elite GS, the GS takes the hit. Oh will, just something to remember is your SoD.