No Tech-Trading Challenge

[Aeson]

I went for Ceremonial Burial first. I wanted to make some contacts before researching an expensive tech. Expansionists get better techs (if they get them of course) by researching the cheapest. Since I was going to have to research it at some point anyways, it made the most sense to me to start with.

By the time CB was finished, I figured to have mapped out the starting landmass, made contacts, popped the huts available, and have a firm grasp on what the best course of action would be from there. I also was pretty sure that I could still get to Philosophy first anyways researching it all myself. Alphabet from a hut was a nice bonus, and I probably could have researched Code of Laws first because of it, but with no rivers (and no trading to fall back on if I got beat to Philosophy) didn't want to chance it. I expected to get The Wheel or Masonry given my tech situation at the time. In most cases I'd rather have the city (if it had any food) or Settler.

Also got Mysticism from a final hut on the starting landmass that I had missed the first time around. The Mongols and Scandanavians were both... dealing with wars pretty early on, so they never got explorers south of my start and I had only done a quick pass that way myself.

[Aqualung71]

I used a variant on Aeson's approach, but for different reasons. I went for Alphabet first, then followed it up with Ceremonial Burial since I popped a town fairly early, but the terrain was not good - all plains in the initial 9 squares, so I needed to border-expand to grow beyond size 3. I figured I would still be able to get to Philosophy first.

I took Literature as the free tech, since with no tech trading early Libraries were quite important. It was quite some time before anyone else researched it, which must have given me a boost. I then dropped down to the Monarchy branch to get out of Despotism as soon as possible, though it was still some time until I could connect up a water source.

Since it was going to be difficult to get a tech lead, I tended to play follow the leader after that, trying to research the techs that had already been discovered by the most civs, if it made sense to do so, in order to get them cheaper. This resulted in a pretty skewed tech tree for me. Of course, early contacts were very important for this too.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Sounds like we popped close to the same city there. That was a little painfull. I think mine had 1 grass or bonus grass, though, after a forrest chop. I just put down a barracks and pumped out units.

I went straight to Philosophy, taking MM as it was the most expensive, and then beelining Math before going to Lit. Still the only one to have Lit, and playing follow the cheap tech around. It was rather interesting when an aggressive neighbor attacked me and all I had was warriors, catapults, and spears...

Got Construction and Poly to go, debating whether I shouldn't attempt to parlay this into a test of Feudalism at the same time. You know, just because I'm insane and all.

Thought it was turning into the no peace ever game there for a while, but did something I have NEVER done before...gave cities for peace.

Tiny cities off on far away 5 tile islands that I had recently taken in suing (since I can't take tech) from a neighbor. Home continent will soon be mine. From there...it'll be interesting. I pray there's local gunpowder...

[Aqualung71]

Yeh, I got a bunch of remote cities off Mongolia at some point. Of course, I couldn't be bothered actually building transports to garrison them and they gradually got picked off by sneak attacks over time.

After ethnically cleansing the inept Vikings and Mongols off the continent, Russia became very isolationist in my game....possibly a natural reaction to the limited need to call up the world's leaders for friendly chats from time to time.

[Cerbykins]

The thing I like about you guys, is not only how you're so insanely suicidal, but also your amazing 'return home in glory' rate on kamikaze missions

It should be interesting to see how you all get out of this one...and you always do
And I might find out some new trick in the process

[Aqualung71]

You playing this one too Cerbykins?

[Dominae]

I had my computer blow up on me yesterday, so I'm not going to be posting a report anytime soon. I would love to hear each of yours, however.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Dominae
I had my computer blow up on me yesterday, so I'm not going to be posting a report anytime soon. I would love to hear each of yours, however.

I finished last night and will post a summary soon. I decided to play a bit of a variant and play NTTC with a no offensive war component (though I did end up taking two cities against an aggressor) -- my previous two games just before NTTC were early domination so I decided on a peaceful approach, something I haven't really done in a NTTC or LTTC ("limited tech trading challenge") before.

Catt

[mahi]

I launched the game last weekend and got until 860AD. That was the time I entered the Middle Ages. The Vikings are almost gone. Only 2 cities left outside our continent. I got two cities from him when he sued for peace. Luckily one was at the second source of Iron in the hills on the left part of the continent. The second city I got is on the little Island to the north. In 370bc I managed to build the Statue of Zeus which helped a lot in my war against the vikings. At the moment I am putting my forces together for the strike against the Mongols. I do not think this game will be a success as I am too far behind in tech, but for my first attempt on emperor at all and additionally not being allowed to trade techs I am quite satisfied.
I was astonished how weak the Vikings were. They had Iron Working and access to Iron, but I faced only 4 - 5 Swordsmen when I cut off their Iron source.
I think I must improve in ecnomics and choosing the right tech in such a game to make it a success.

[UnOrthOdOx]

I'm only up to 1300 AD, finishing up Medieval.

Managed to build Bachs and Capernicus, will probably be able to weasel my way into Smiths via a prebuild.

Vikings are wiped out and Mongols are on a tundra isle. Mongols being SO kind as to build me Leo's before they left the mainland.

Oh, probably 3-4 mandatory techs behind, in a Feudalism, and preparing an invasion of...Byzantine's I think...I don't know...dark red guys. Considering a second Govt switch to either Communism (preferrably) or Fascism just cause I've never used IT before...

[Aeson]

I sent my Worker to the BG 7 of the starting location, my Scout moved 88 to further check out the area around the Wheat, and my Settler moved 8 to settle by the Wheat. Another Scout was my first build, then a Settler which completed in 3100BC. Research was first towards Ceremonial Burial at max research.

The starting Scout found 2 Warriors from huts, and those continued N through the Mountains and Jungles, making finding the Scandinavian borders, meeting up with a Mongol Warrior there too.

I fought my first war very early. In 3350BC I decided to use the 2 Warriors to slow down my neighbor and hopefully grab a couple Workers. The Workers weren't safe to capture, so I put the Warriors on Mountains and Hills in and next to Scandinavian borders. There they fortified and then I cancelled the Peace Treaty. The war consisted of 4 battles, losing one Warrior to an Archer which I foolishly attacked, while killing 2 Warriors and an Archer on defense. In 3150BC I made peace for Scandinavia's two Workers.

In 3100BC I started on a Granary in Moscow. Finished research on Ceremonial burial in 3050BC and started on Writing at 100%. St. Petersburg was founded in the Hills overlooking the Ivory in 3000BC and first built a Warrior then started on a Barracks. The third city, Novograd, was founded on a coastal Hill to the North in 2150BC and started right on their own Barracks. This city was built up against the Scandinavian's second city, and was to allow access to Irrigation faster.

My first Curragh was sent out in 1870BC, with another following the next turn, having switched Novograd's unfinished Barracks into a ship. The exploration of the starting continent was almost completed and it was clear naval exploration was going to be important. Not for trading, but to have as many contacts as possible, and thus pay the lowest beaker price for my own research. One Curragh went North, while the other explored the coasts seen to the East. Writing finished in 1830BC, and I went for Philosophy next. The same turn Rostov was founded on the Incense Hill, beating a Scandinavian Settler pair to it by a turn. This culturally sealed off access to the S of my territory nicely, and claiming the Luxuries turned out to be very important. The city itself wasn't very good for quite a while, but it did contribute a Curragh, a few Warriors, and the occasional Scientist as well.

[Aeson]

In 1625BC Yaroslavl' was founded on the west coast near some fish, and promptly was sacked by Barbarians. My Curragh that I had sent East made contact with the Byzantines the same turn. I noticed they didn't have Map Making (or even Writing) yet, and so promptly declared war. Next turn Yekaterinburg was founded on the isthmus leading to the Desert penninsula while a group of Warriors headed S to try and find the Barbarian encampment.

In 1550BC a stack of 3 Barbarian Warriors found me instead, and attacked Yaroslavl' where I had fortified a Warrior. The Warrior survived and was promoted to Elite. The Warrior I had sent out looking for the Barbs found the encampment the same turn, and died the next while attacking it. Meanwhile Moscow started building the Collosus and I spotted the Spanish borders with the Curragh to the East.

The Spanish were contacted in 1475BC and the first Barb Horseman showed up, and captured one of my two native Workers the next turn when I foolishly forgot to move it. My Elite Warrior exacted revenge. I also finished Philosophy, took Map Making as the free tech, and started research on Literature. In 1425 Yakutsk was founded at the mouth of the Banana River and started building Workers.

In 1325 another Barb Horseman showed up and attacked my Elite Warrior who had just healed. St. Petersburg finished a Settler which built Vladivostock on the S edge of the Plains the following turn. First the Byzantine war was ended though, and I received Varna as compensation for signing peace. It wasn't going to be of much use, but was enticing in that Spices were close by. In any case it was better in my hands than the Byzantines, and provided another Scientist to the Russian empire.

The Mongols made their first demand of me, Mysticism, and so we went to war. I was going to cancel the peace treaty with them anyways, so it was good timing! I had previously built a Spearman, and started building Archers in St. Petersburg to gear up for any Mongol troops.

In 1275BC I spotted English borders, but couldn't make contact because they were inland. I made contact with them in 1175BC, just as they finished the Collosus. I wasted 21 shields switching Moscow to a Temple, needing them back on Settlers or building military soon anyways. My first Archer was produced, and headed S with the Elite Warrior and a Settler to finally take out the pesky Barb encampment down there.

Made contact with the Aztecs in 1100BC with my 3rd Curragh I had sent out. Made peace with the Mongols for 40g, and promptly the peace treaty with the Spanish. Around this time I realized I didn't need to cancel the peace treaties. The AI were willing to part with 20, 40, 60, or 80 gold to renegotiate the peace treaty, and I did so every 20 turns with each of them pretty much for the rest of the game. Building Smolensk down by the Ivory Forest killed the Barbarian camp, and then my Archer killed the remaining warrior the next turn. Also finished Literature in 1075BC and started on a couple of Libraries. Code of Laws was my next tech to research.

In 1010BC I made contact with Carthage.

1000BC saw me at 10 cities, 5 native Workers, 2 captured, 10 Warriors, 2 Archers, a Spearman, and 3 Curraghs. 6 turns till Code of Laws and 191g even though I was constantly running a deficit. Those peace treaties really pay off nicely. It's the equivalent of getting 1-4 gpt from each AI constantly.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Damn.

the overseas AI's weren't so willing to part with cash in my game.

In fact they all allied against me very, very early.

[Aeson]

In 850AD my evil ways caught up to me. A bunch of Mongol units showed up next to my Incense city, obviously looking for a fight. There were 3 Warriors and 3 Archers (Regs) to my 2 Warriors (Regs). I had plenty of reinforcements to send, 3 Warriors, 3 Archers, and a Spearman, but none of them could make it there soon enough.

This was one of those situations I really should have kept my Scouts around for, deaper in AI territory to watch for the units coming! Instead my two Scouts had been disbanded for a measly 2 shields each.

The Mongol units weren't all in one stack, and the first 'wave' was a single Warrior which lost to one of my defending Warriors. I was 1 turn away from finishing my Barracks in Rostov, and I should have switched to a military unit. I figured if they did take the city, maybe the Barracks would survive, as I was sure to retake it with my reinforcements. Instead I pop rushed a Spearman in Rostov by disbanding a native Worker for the first shields, meaning it would be razed. Must have been sleep deprivation or something... I really wasn't thinking well at this point.

Also I finished Code of Laws in 825BC, and started on Iron Working. Enough of the AI had it already so I could research in 4 turns at 80%. From here on out a majority of my techs were 4 turns.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than to think straight. The Mongols attacked, with a Warrior first. That was a close fight which my Warrior won with 1 HP left. My other Warrior then beat an Archer, losing 1 HP. Then the Mongols attacked with a Warrior, which my Warrior beat losing no HP's, and got a promotion to Elite. Then the next Mongol Archer attacked, only taking my Elite down to 2 HPs. The 3rd Archer killed the elite, but my 1 HP Warrior remained!

Between the pop rushed Spearman, and reinforments arriving, the city was safe! My surviving Warrior took out the 2HP Mongol Archer. One of my Curraghs wasn't so lucky though, and was sunk by a Barb Galley out by the English.

825AD Also saw the founding of Orenburg and Krasnoyarsk both built on the SE coasts, and both starting Worker production.

Mongol units, mostly Warriors, continued to trickle in. I tried some Leader farming, but my Elite Warriors always lost. In 750BC I started building the Great Lighthouse in Moscow as a prebuild for Zeus. Iron Working finished in 730BC, and it was on to a 4 turn Masonry at 50%. The Iron showed why the Scandinavians had chosen their second city site, and so I started gearing for war to claim it.

710BC I founded Khabarovsk, down near the Tundra on the East coast.

650BC saw me make peace with the Mongols, revoke the peace treaty with the Scandinavians, and move a stack of units to take Bergen.

My stack and a few lagging units which caught up in 630BC were able to kill the 2 defending Spearmen and an Archer in Bergen with heavy losses over the next two turns. Ended up attacking with my Spearmen to finish off the last Spear, after losing most of my Warriors and Archers attacking already. Now I had a source of Iron available to claim, and 357g, so I started building more Warriors for upgrading.

Masonry finished in 610BC, and I started in on 4 turn Mathmatics at 90%.

I stacked units on the Mountains around Bergen, and kept killing Scandanavian Archers as they wandered by. I really wanted a Leader to build an Ancient Cavalry Army! Mathmatics finished in 530BC, and I switched Moscow to Zeus which would take roughly 15 more turns. Started research on the Wheel, 4 turns at 30%.

I decided that 20 turns of peace, building up to Ancient Cavalry and Swordsmen would be better than Leader farming. Besides, all my Elite Archers kept dying instead of winning any fights. So I made peace with the Scandinavians for Oslo, situated at the NE edge of the continent.

In 430BC my Irrigation project finally reached the Plains. The Wheel finished, and I started on Horseback Riding at 50%, still on a 4 turn rate. Switched military builds in my two main Barracks cities to Libraries, to keep up the pace now that the techs would start to get more expensive.

The Scandinavians didn't seem to want to live anymore, and had sent a Warrior galavanting through my territory. I demanded that they leave in 410BC, and they declared war. This time my Elite Archer was able to win, but no Leader yet. Also I was getting negative war weariness from the Scandinavians this time, so things worked out well, if a little quicker than I had planned on. Still 6 turns till Zeus, and the Iron not hooked up yet.

I sent a Spearman and Archer towards Trondheim in 390BC, and they spotted a Scandinavian Archer/Settler pair the next turn. My Archer lost, but my Spearman finished up (barely, 1 HP left), and I added two more captured Workers. One of these would head to the Iron and build a colony there.

350BC saw me upgrade 6 Warriors, and things started to look up. HBR had finished, and I went for Construction at 100%, 9 turns.

Zeus was finished in 290 BC, and a 4 turn Barracks was started so the first AC would be Veteran. The Mongols got uppity at this time, demanding Literature, and so I was now facing both my neighbors. The Mongols had Horsemen, but that wasn't a problem. I kept to the Mountains and had very few losses while counterattacking Horses that survived to retreat.

In 190BC I finished Construction, and started researching Polytheism. My cash had run out, and so I was only able to go 60%, 7 turns. Moscow (10 spt) was building Swordsmen along with my 2 other main cities (6 and 7 spt). My first AC was added to the mix as well...

My first AC lead a stack of Swords to Trondheim, capturing it in 90BC. After that Scandinavia was willing to give up 2 cities on the SW penninsula, and so I accepted peace. Copenhagen and Aarhus were added to the Russian empire.

With Scandinavia taken care of, I sent my forces towards the Mongol city of Tabriz, just N of the Desert Lake. 13 Swordsmen, 2 AC, my last surviving Elite Archer, and a couple Spears were all headed there in 30BC. In the fighting that ensued the next turn, Ivan the Terrible led a group of Elite Swordsmen into Tabriz. Thus ended the BC's in my game.

[Aqualung71]

I did a turn by turn analysis for the first 40 turns, so I'll post what I have....

4000BC: After checking the surrounding area with my worker and scout, moved Settler west, then found the Ivory bonus. I didn’t want to settle on the starting location, because that would have given me 4 coastal tiles of limited value.

The benefit of an early Curragh is lessened since contacts cannot be used to trade techs, and we are not seafaring so don’t get the movement bonus. However, contacts are still important as they help to reduce research costs, so I will build an early scout, then Granary, and found my second town on the coast for the Curragh.

3950BC: Founded Moscow, building another Scout. Researching Alphabet in 50 for the Philosophy beeline, as a free tech is more important in this game. Scout sees a hut, so will head over there and hope for the best. Worker roading bonus grassland.

3900BC: Scout pops hut and great news – we have a second town already, St. Petersburg! This is an enormous bonus this early in the game, though with only one worker it will take a while to reap any decent benefit. Building a Scout in this town too, then plan to build a worker when our capital starts on the Granary.

3800BC: Road complete. Worker moved to wheat.

3750BC: Worker roading wheat.

3700BC: Scout built in capital – sent north to look for water. Now building Warrior to act as MP. Southern scout pops another hut, which yields a Warrior.

3650BC: Second Scout built. Worker next, which will finish just as we move to pop 2. Scout sent east to investigate what looks like a peninsular. Northern Scout approaches another hut on a mountain. Southern scout reaches the end of the line, but spies a Whale in the distance, which seems to indicate another landmass close by to the southwest.

3600BC: Wheat roaded, started mining. Northern Scout pops another hut and gets another Warrior. All useful stuff.

3550BC: Northern Scout turns west and bumps into the Vikings, who have the Alphabet and Warrior Code compared to our Bronze Working and Pottery. The exquisite torture of the game rules begins! On the bright side, meeting the Vikings drops our current research by 2 turns since they already have Alphabet!

3500BC: Our eastern Scout finds the end of our continent – but plenty of shallow water channels around…we need a Curragh!

3450BC: Warrior built in our capital. Granary next. Incense spotted to the west.

3400BC: Worker built in St. Petersburg. Granary next.

3350BC: Worker roading bonus grassland in St. Petersburg. Western scout meets the Mongols, who unfortunately don’t have Alphabet.

3300BC: Wheat mined. Move back to adjacent bonus grassland and begin mining. Meanwhile, Granary in St. Petersburg switched to another Scout, as we want to follow up with another worker quickly.

3200BC: Road finished in St. Petersburg, mine next. Southern scout comes to the end of the line, finding nothing but tundra and many turns away from being able to do anything useful!

3150BC: Scout produced in St. Petersburg – that should do it for the Scouts. Worker next.

3000BC: Worker in Moscow completes mine, moves down to Ivory to connect up in time for our growth to pop 4. The unfriendly terrain is really detracting from our Scouts’ movement bonus.

2900BC: Worker completed in St. Petersburg. Without fresh water and no current means to border-expand, this town will be limited to size 3 for the foreseeable future. We start on a Barracks, because under these circumstances a Granary will be of limited use. Meanwhile our Scouts labour through marsh, forests, jungles, hills and mountains looking for the goody huts that no longer seem to be around.

2800BC: Speak of the devil…Scout finds and pops a hut….yielding a fairly useless map of the region. Ivory connected.

2750BC: Alphabet researched. In an interesting decision, we decide to research Ceremonial Burial in 10 as a diversion from the Writing-Philosophy beeline. We need a Temple in St. Petersburg in order to border-expand and access some more grassland for growth. Also, we figure that the delay may enable someone else to research Writing before us and then drop our research time somewhat. In fact, it may be that the Philosophy strategy is a waste of time – perhaps we should only research techs that our contacts already own, to cut our research time as much as possible.

2550BC: Our Scout discovers that the Vikings also possess Ivory.

2510BC: First Settler built. Sent north to block off the Viking expansion, and also to settle on a hill and get some water flowing.

2390BC: Novgorod settled up north next to the fish. Curragh being built. Southern scout encounters barb and is forced to retreat, but with such horrible terrain really has nowhere to run.

2350BC: Ceremonial Burial researched. Writing in 24. Barracks build in St. Petersburg switched to Temple.

2150BC: Settler built. Sent west with Spearman escort to settle near the Incense. The lack of nearby water and unfriendly surrounding terrain makes this a difficult start position for an expansionist civ. Our Scouts popped 4 huts, yielding a new town, 2 conscripts and some maps. No techs.