Rank the Traits: Scientific

[kobo1d]

Hi all. Long time reader, 1st time poster.
I was curious how everyone would "rank" the traits.
This time: Scientific

On a scale of 0-5, 0 being totally worthless and 5 being the best, how would everyone rank the Sci. trait?

Update

Scientific averaged 2.972 after 36 votes.
6th highest ranked.

Chart coming soon.

[vmxa1]

I choose 4, but probably should not have voted on this one. I just don't use it much.

[Krill]

It's a good trait, and the advantage over commercial is that you get the tech first, sell it, and re-invest the money, other than getting the money in "Installments" in Commercial, so you don't get a tech lead.

[kobo1d]

updated stats

[Aqualung71]

I would call this a secondary trait, but very powerful in combination with anything except Expansionist and Militarist (and great with Religious if playing for a culture win....Babylon!).

[Mountain Sage]

I gave a 0 (I'm in a bad mood today, I know).
If you need that free tech every age that desperately, then you're in deep trouble anyway.
Getting techs is not only just research, it's mainly the cleverness of trading them....

[Jon Shafer]

I gave this tech a 2. It's simply quite poor IMO. Its culture potential is highly limited, as Literature comes a LONG time after Ceremonial Burial (giving REL the advantage here). The extra chance at SGLs is meh... and the free techs are usually not THAT big of a deal (compared with traits like IND and AGR) except in very special cases.

[Donegeal]

Would this trait be considered useful if it also gave a % chance of a "Miraculous Discovery!" (ie: a small chance of a scientific breakthrought giving the tech being researched at the time automatically)?

[Jon Shafer]

I don't think it's a good idea to have traits depend on small % "hit-or-miss" opportunities like SGLs, MGLs and culture flips. I'd prefer a more gradual and less drastic effects than these silver bullet effects that either make-or-break a trait.

Solution? Give a certain % discount on all research for Sci civs instead of some of its other bonuses.

[vulture]

Looks okay on paper, but isn't that strong in practice. Haven't played enough to get a feel for how well the increased SGL chances benefit the trait, but a rough analysis suggests that on average you are looking at one extra SGL in the late middle ages or early industrial, which isn't that big a deal. Rather too random. Bad luck with SGLs and random techs leaves you with very little of value.

[Arrian]

3. I like it, but I like others more.

The 1/2 cost libraries & unis are definitely nice, as are the free techs per era & the boost to SGL generation.

Obviously, however, if you don't get the tech lead until late in the game (playing at a high level), then a higher percentage chance of getting SGLs doesn't do much for you, does it?

-Arrian

[kobo1d]

updated stats

[Goethe80]

4 for me. I think Sci is an underrated trait. You only have to look at Catt's amazing AAR (somewhere on the must read thread) to see how being able to crank out cheap universities can land you a game in the long term.

The increased SGL generation is quite useless. A better solution would be the ability to have a 'turbo' button. Either to instantly create a tech-based wonder (possibly everything except GL, so things like newtons would fit), or have a general improvement in research for short periods like you can do with SGLs(once an era?)

That said, the cultural output bonus from cheap sci buildings are nice too (which makes babylon so ridiculously easy for a tech victory).

[eris]

A half priced library is cheaper than a full priced temple. Not only do you get the beginning culture, but you get beakers, too. With the same tactics you would use to gain a tech lead, you can achieve tech domination. The three extra techs are a nice bonus to that, much the same as the two extra techs for Theory of Evolution and the one extra tech for Philosophy. The tech lead turns to a military advantage at some time and then the other civs justifiably tremble in fear. (Well, they tremble until they become too busy being destroyed.) I do think a one beaker per town bonus would be appropriate, but I still like being Scientific. Nothing better than being able to say "Not only am I smarter than you, I am a lot smarter."

Voted 4

[yxhuvud]

In my opinion, this is the trait that depends the most on if you are playing SP or MP. It is totally worthless in SP (ime), but in MP where people actually have to research stuff even when they are not a top dog, it is much stronger. The free techs being much more important there as well.