I think i know why AI doesn't build armies!

[smellymummy]

with governor on, armies don't get built that often. i imagine the AI follows that same type of logic in building decisions

[Antrine]

Ya Switch, I am behaving now, am kind and even generous. Is this a dream too?

[Fatwreck]

Originally posted by player1
I consider army bug much more serious then "a submarine bug" some poeple are too vocal about.

totally agree... the sub-bug doesn´t even bother me

[Willem]

Originally posted by Fatwreck


totally agree... the sub-bug doesn´t even bother me

In a way, it's even something of an advantage, at least for Democratic and Republic govs. It's a sure fire way of getting a civ you want to go to war with to declare first, which makes a huge difference in War Weariness.

[Rusty Nail]

In my mod, the only way to produce armies is automatically by the Military Academy every 15 turns. This way you make sure that the AI has some. It definitely improves gameplay.

[MattPilot]

Good idea - so does the Academy automatically stop producing them when the limit (1 per 4 cities) is reached or does it continue to produce them?

[Theseus]

/me prays to Mount Firaxis for fixing this in a patch.

Seriously... Anybody been afraid of an AI attack lately?

I disagree with Antrine. Between the lack of AI Armies, and the AI avoidance of OUR Armies, this is a *gamebreaker*. As much as it pains me to even THINK of it, I am prolly going to avoid using Armies myself until it is fixed.

[Antrine]

Well, Theseus did you actually mean you 'agree' with me?

Considering all my other posts on the AI Army subject. That the AI Army is 'completely broke' now, however most of which is all modable. But with sublime deference to the 'champions of Vanilla' it is certainly 'non-functional' as is, in it's current state.

Additionally and I am now B r a g i n g, in my Mod, yes I do get concerned about AI Armies and that on a regular basis. Every game several times each. But then, I am certain that once various and sundry conditions are carefully 'set-up' for the AI, they use Armies well. I have plenty of pictures to support it. My favorite is when two offensively packed Armies stacked with three each defensive units come up pre-emptively against a single city.

The AI routines for Army use are fine, once several of them are about, with underlying conditions met. And they will attack a 'winged enemy Army'. I carelessly lose Armies because I tend to fling them about, the AI is more prudent and stacks them forward and back again.

'Mod like hell, it is next best thing to intelligence, trust me, we are desperate to make this thing work, it still is the closest to the target yet. However, hope abounds that someone, somewhere is working on the 'Great Big Universal Game Editor in the Sky'. And who says this is a dream?

[Antrine]

Oh and Rusty Nail, good idea however slightly flawed.

Use the Palace to spit out an Army every 15 turns, for you are assuming the AI's are going to get to even building the Academy in any kind of predictable manner. And when does this Academy come available in your game? How much is it? And will it be built necessarily in the Capitol, which is another side issue. Add as well, the plentitude of 'offensive' units close by for the AI to stuff into the Armies.

Just my experience.
Happy Gaming

[Rusty Nail]

MattPilot:

I believe the production of armies stops when you reach the limit. I seem to recell experiencing that, but I am not 100% sure.

Antrine:

Interesting idea to use Palace for producing armies. My experience is that the AI usually builds the military academy, but my sample size is admittedly small. I make it cheaper so it is easier to build. Also, the AI does often fill it up with the wrong units, unfortunately.

[Rusty Nail]

Antrine:

In my current mod the military academy becomes available in the usual place, military tradition, and can be built anywhere. Do you have good reasons to do otherwise?

[Antrine]

Hi Rusty Nail!

The key component of the Military Academy is ‘building Armies without a Leader’ flag. By my way of thinking, when you also use a Small Wonder or any improvement to ‘spit’ out a unit every so many turns, one arranges timing.

With Armies, a long lead-time is needful. They must be stuffed and or moved generally to the capitol and/or other units moved to them. This coordination can take many turns. With that, their AI use is further complicated as they often ‘stack’ fast moving defensive units (if available) with said Armies. The AI does not send Armies out alone so far that I have seen. Moreover, I have seen many dozens in various settings.

If your objective to have more Napoleon like field engagements etc, throughout the game or even early with Ancient units then this trigger, ‘building Armies without a Leader’ flag needs be available early on. Additionally I have it set, in three or four Small Wonders, so no matter, character of AI or whatever branch of the tech tree they climb, that opportunity it readily there.

At this time, I also have four different types of Army units. Each with a varied set of characteristics:

First, the Normal Vanilla Army; renamed Imperial Army retaining all Vanilla game settings.

Second, an Ancient Army, cheaper available early (second tier on tech tree) loads only two units, no radar (which translates to a 25% battle bonus). Easy build, easy die, expendable if you will.

Third, a Siege Army made with a Trebuchet and loads only one, again no radar, available early different limb of the tech tree, the special characteristic being it bombards at 6, rounds 1, rate 3. It will routinely damage two hit points per turn on target land or sea.

Fourthly, a Multi-unit of warriors, this is great for looks. Loads one, no radar however it’s claim to fame is that it is amphibious. Can load on the two earliest ships for to have ancient sea battle replete with invasions, I bill it as an early version of the berserker that comes later. This comes very early as well.

Now I employ three methods to insure AI use of Armies.

Common and easily built improvements spit them out.

Two, there are available units to stuff them always nearby, this done again by common improvements spitting them out and by having every single unit with the ‘enslave unit’ trigger functional. This pulls units in randomly all the time. I like gladiators, however utilize a whole range of units all enslaved. For this is the main way this class of units comes into the game.

Third and I believe least effective though commonly relied upon by modders or players. Have the AI build them. No matter how cheap, this for the AI is not so reliable and conversely it is very reliable to humans. Therefore, you cannot make them to cheap or easily available by simple building for the humans will drive a Mack Truck on through this hole soon having excessively many Armies! Therefore, it is better to regulate their introduction into the game flow via improvements and remaining a little expensive. Also nice, that with this, ‘no Leader trigger’ on a Wonder, the Armies can only be built in the city that host those Wonders.

Often, what keeps the human player in check hampers the AI, a definite game designer’s quandary.

Happy Gaming!

[MattPilot]

i just tried it out - when letting improvements build armies automatically, it doesn't stop when the limit is reached.

just a FYI

[Antrine]

Wow, I suspected that! We could have Army polution...

[MattPilot]

it was quite interesting though. I took some of your suggestions and limited armies to 2 guys, with a third one when the pentagon is built.

Very early on i had one spearman and one archer in an army. It wasn't to bad actually. Not to powerful, and not to weak. A swordman, when attacking, had a good chance of killing said army, and a spearman sometimes killed the army too when being fortified in a city. What was also nice was i had a nice engagement with an enemy army consisting of an iroquis (sp?) scout and an archer. I won

I also modded armies to be Wheeled and i had forests restrict wheeled movement. SO early on, when you don't have lots of roads in the game, units could hide in forest squares without being attacked by the 'powerful' armies. And that happened quite a lot actually.