At what levels do the AI cheat and how?

[SMIFFGIG]

I was just wondering at what difficulty level the AI start cheating at and in which ways do they cheat to give them that edge ?

Oh and a little side note, is the fourth City graphic (of the huge city) actually used in Ancient and medieval times considering cities can only grow to a max population of 12 ? (due for the need of the Sanitation advance and sewers city improvement?)

[vmxa1]

What do you mean by cheat? The AI has one built in cheat, it has knowledge of the tiles.

Do you mean their bonus at the differnt levels, such as free support and units? Handicaps are not cheating. Players get them at the lowest levels.


In the middle ages a city of size 7 or greater could build Shakespears and then act as if it had a hospitol.

[Krill]

Regent is the break even level, ie it has no bonus'

Monarch and above have built in advantages, such as less food for pop growth needed, and less shields/unit, and less beakers per advance.

[ErikM]

Originally posted by vmxa1
What do you mean by cheat? The AI has one built in cheat, it has knowledge of the tiles.

A bit more I think.

(i) knows an entire map, including "invisible" resources
(ii) knows location of all your units
(iii) gets a possibility to build a unit on the same turn it captures a city (ie you take an AI city. AI counterattacks and retakes it. When it is your turn, AI would have a defensive unit there already, even if technically it should not be able to build it until the next turn)
(iv) gets a free defensive unit in culturally flepped/surrendered cities (human player does not) - maybe related to (iii)
(v) never asks another AI to remove troops from their territory

Probably there are more.

[Solomwi]

i & ii) exactly what vmxa said

iii) haven't seen that. Then again, it's not a situation I encounter often. I suspect, though, since the AI overloads on defensive units, that there's a more plausible explanation. Or maybe they just drafted one of their own citizens, which you could do, too, if you recaptured a city with your citizens in it.

iv) human player gets one, too

v) how is the AI opting for one of two choices given to both AI and humans a cheat?

[ErikM]

(i) yes, just a bit more precise
(iv) no, at least not in the version I'm playing. Used to be the case in earlier versions, but now you never get free units
(v) not sure what you are saying here. Spend more than two turns in AIs territory (or move more than two units to AI territory) and you will be asked to remove troops or declare war (scouts/galleys are an exception). This does not apply to other AI's units, though. They can wander all they want in another AIs territory without military access and the victim of this transgression will never ask them to leave. Whether it is a cheat or just a feature is a matter of semantics, but AIs and a human player definitely do not play by the same rules here.

[Edit]
As for (iii)
If I rush or draft a unit on turn 100, my unit will appear in a city on turn 101, since production phase takes one turn. But AI can rush a unit on turn#100, and it will appear in the city on the same turn, before you get a chance to react.

[Antrine]

AI may 'attack' cities while at peace with 'hidden nationality units'. Human players may not.

However, on the flip side...

The AI is generally handicaped by defunct 'routines' for to use Armies effectively or even at all. (some mods fix this )

The AI is braindead when it comes to being 'corralled' and generally does not do it.

The AI is lousy at using all siege. The human player generally is not.

I am sure there is more... someone will think of it.

[SMIFFGIG]

thanks Krill you answered my main question
*next game will be on Regent level *

and thanks ErikM for the info
Im sure there are much more also

What do you mean by cheat? The AI has one built in cheat, it has knowledge of the tiles.

Do you mean their bonus at the differnt levels

No i mean cheats, the same sort of cheats the MANY AI systems use throughout the gaming world to make them more difficult to play against.

[Krill]

Oh goody. Do I win a prize?

ON TOPIC: Glad that I could help. If you want to have people give you advice on the game, why not play the AU game, AU 502. it has stock rules with it, so no problems their.

[Solomwi]

iii) It's been a long time since I drafted a unit, but I was pretty sure they appear the same turn they're drafted. I suppose you've ruled out the possibility of AI having a defensive unit in its stack, or otherwise in a position to enter the city that turn?

iv) Which version are you playing? I know C3C gives one, and haven't seen any changes to that in the patch readmes.

v) The human and AI do play by the same rules. When AI units cross into your territory, you have the choice of letting them wander or asking them to leave. The AI gets the same choice when units cross into its borders. If it never chooses the ask to leave option, it's not a cheat, simply a choice.

[ErikM]

Originally posted by Solomwi
iii) It's been a long time since I drafted a unit, but I was pretty sure they appear right away when you do. I suppose you've ruled out the possibility of AI having a defensive unit in its stack, or otherwise in a position to enter the city that turn?

I can find a save game to prove it if you insist. It happened like this: French sneak attack and take my undefended city with an archer. I know that they had nothing else since I can see in the vicinity of my city and there are no roads around yet. AI turn is over and now it is my turn. AI has an archer AND a spearman in the city. They could not have drafted it since it was way before nationalism. Could not transfer a unit, either. And if they rushed it, a spearman should not be there until the NEXT turn.

iv) Which version are you playing? I know C3C gives one, and haven't seen any changes to that in the patch readmes.

C3C 1.15. If I get a city in a peace treaty or as a result of a culture flip, it comes empty, no military of any kind.

Maybe it is feature of the difficulty level, though? I have not played below Emperor for a long time, so maybe on lower difficulties you do get a freebie unit. AI certainly does get a free defensive unit in such circumstances, though.

v) The human and AI do play by the same rules. When AI units cross into your territory, you have the choice of letting them wander or asking them to leave. The AI gets the same choice when units cross into its borders. If it never chooses the ask to leave option, it's not a cheat, simply a choice.

If a certain choice is never made, it is no longer a choice.
BTW, the AI algorithm for asking you to leave is very simple. If you violate AI's territory with 2 or more units at the same time, you will be asked to leave immediately. If you enter AI lands with a single unit
(i) on turn 1 AI will remind you that they are there, but will not ask for a withdrawal
(ii) turn 2, AI will keep quiet
(iii) turn 3, AI will demand withdrawal or war.
So there is a set of rules AI follows.
First 40 turns or so second rule is a bit relaxed.

Just try to cross AI borders with 17 units simultaneously and see what happens. You will be bumped immediately.

This does not apply to other AIs at all. It is like all AIs have a free MA with each other, although without a benefit of using roads.

[Plotinus]

Yes, I have seen suspicious defensive units in newly captured cities, but never have I seen one that I knew for sure should not have been there - more often it seems to appear the next turn, suggesting that a rush job has been done. Be careful, incidentally, to distinguish rushing the building of a unit, which would appear only on the next term, and drafting a unit, which appears immediately. Obviously, when it's spearmen we're talking about, it's not drafting, because you can't do that until Industrial times.

[Solomwi]

Difficulty level could well be the key on the two defender issues, in which case we're back to it not being a cheat, but a bonus, as stated early in the thread.

If a certain choice is never made, it is no longer a choice.

Sure it is. It was just made by the programmers instead of the AI.

BTW, the AI algorithm for asking you to leave is very simple. If you violate AI's territory with 2 or more units at the same time, you will be asked to leave immediately. If you enter AI lands with a single unit
(i) on turn 1 AI will remind you that they are there, but will not ask for a withdrawal
(ii) turn 2, AI will keep quiet
(iii) turn 3, AI will demand withdrawal or war.
So there is a set of rules AI follows.
First 40 turns or so second rule is a bit relaxed.

Just try to cross AI borders with 17 units simultaneously and see what happens. You will be bumped immediately.

Um, great, but who has argued that the AI will let the human wander around its territory? The same rules are in place, the AI just treats the human differently within those rules than it does other AI's.

This does not apply to other AIs at all. It is like all AIs have a free MA with each other, although without a benefit of using roads.

Heck, up until C3C, the AI's even had the road usage, with their almost automatic ROP signings.

French sneak attack and take my undefended city with an archer.

You let the FRENCH get the jump on you?!?

Sorry, couldn't resist that.

[vmxa1]

AFAIK you get a unit if you flip a city. I did it recently in C3C. All in all I have not seen anything mentioned beyond the point I made at the start. The talk about hidden national and leaving their land, is trivia (annoying though)l.

The point is the games does not engage in cheats, it does give bonuses as the higher levels.

[ErikM]

Well it is a matter of semantics whether you call a certain type of behavior a cheat or a feature.

It is something to be aware of, though. If you, civ X, are at war against AI civ Y and there is a civ Z separating you from Y, you are by no means safe from invasion even if Z&Y do not have a MA. OTOH, you have to declare war or buy MA from Z if you want to invade Y.

You let the FRENCH get the jump on you?!?

Yes, it was the day that will live in infamy
That was their last act of foreign agression, though