Tweet
As most of us know, having more luxuries makes additional luxuries worth more. What is less obvious, however, is that the AI is not programmed to factor that difference in when multiple luxuries are traded in a single deal.
Imagine if an AI has five luxuries and you want to sell it three more. The next luxury it obtains will produce three happy faces, so if you try to sell the luxuries all at once, it will value all three as if they would each produce three happy faces. But if you make each deal separately, you get a 3-happy-face value for the first luxury and a higher, 4-happy-face value for the other two. (Conversely, if you're buying, you want to obtain all three luxuries in a single deal so you pay the lower price for all of them.)
That's the simple case, but it can also be possible to split up more complex deals in order to get full price for all your luxuries. For example, in the current Apolyton University game, I wanted to make a deal with France to continue getting my eighth luxury from them. After looking at possible deals, the only prctical way I could get that luxury was to trade all three of the luxuries I had that France wanted. In a straight-up deal, France was willing to give me a small amount of gold per turn, but not as much as they could afford.
So instead of handling the matter in a single transaction, I handled it in three steps. First, I traded one of my luxuries plus gold per turn and a little gold up front for France's luxury. Then, not knowing for sure exactly how many luxuries France already had, I made two separate deals selling France my two luxuries for gold per turn and a little up-front gold. In each deal, I spent some time figuring out what the best deal France could possibly be persuaded to accept was because I wanted to squeeze as much as I could out of them. (I tend ot be a bit nasty to AIs in that regard.) The end result was that I got a few more gold per turn out of France than I could have otherwise - all they could afford, as it turned out.
Note that giving a civ gold per turn and expecting to get it back in a later deal in your same turn only works if the civ already has spare gold per turn when you start setting up the transaction. Otherwise, the AI most likely won't be willing to give the gold per turn back. But I'm almost positive that the same trick could work using cash up front if you have enough.
I've also used multi-stage where I give an AI gold or gold per turn and then get it back in another deal the same turn in other contexts. For example, sometimes you have a good tech lead but there are not enough techs that you can trade at any one time to get what you want because of prerequisite requirements. Making up the difference with gold or gold per turn and then getting the gold back selling the later tech can provide a way out of that situation. But again, remember that if the AI isn't already willing to provide gold per turn in a deal, it most likly won't be williing to give back gold per turn you give it no matter how much what you offer in the later deal is worth. More complex multi-stage deals are also possible, for example, if a player is two techs ahead on one branch of the tech tree and has reason (for example, a wonder notification pop-up) to believe that an AI is two techs ahead on another branch.
By the way, I hope everyone knows that when you ask an AI what it will give you for something, it rarely offers the most it would be willing to pay. I've even had occasions when all an AI would offer me for a tech was a world map and maybe a handful of loose change but the AI would be willing to give me a tech for the tech if I proposed the deal. A fair amount of trial and error is needed to determine what the most an AI is really willing to pay is. (I hope in Civ 4, they change things so players don't have to engage in that bit of rather tedious micromanagement in order to get the best deal they can.)
Nathan
Imagine if an AI has five luxuries and you want to sell it three more. The next luxury it obtains will produce three happy faces, so if you try to sell the luxuries all at once, it will value all three as if they would each produce three happy faces. But if you make each deal separately, you get a 3-happy-face value for the first luxury and a higher, 4-happy-face value for the other two. (Conversely, if you're buying, you want to obtain all three luxuries in a single deal so you pay the lower price for all of them.)
That's the simple case, but it can also be possible to split up more complex deals in order to get full price for all your luxuries. For example, in the current Apolyton University game, I wanted to make a deal with France to continue getting my eighth luxury from them. After looking at possible deals, the only prctical way I could get that luxury was to trade all three of the luxuries I had that France wanted. In a straight-up deal, France was willing to give me a small amount of gold per turn, but not as much as they could afford.
So instead of handling the matter in a single transaction, I handled it in three steps. First, I traded one of my luxuries plus gold per turn and a little gold up front for France's luxury. Then, not knowing for sure exactly how many luxuries France already had, I made two separate deals selling France my two luxuries for gold per turn and a little up-front gold. In each deal, I spent some time figuring out what the best deal France could possibly be persuaded to accept was because I wanted to squeeze as much as I could out of them. (I tend ot be a bit nasty to AIs in that regard.) The end result was that I got a few more gold per turn out of France than I could have otherwise - all they could afford, as it turned out.
Note that giving a civ gold per turn and expecting to get it back in a later deal in your same turn only works if the civ already has spare gold per turn when you start setting up the transaction. Otherwise, the AI most likely won't be willing to give the gold per turn back. But I'm almost positive that the same trick could work using cash up front if you have enough.
I've also used multi-stage where I give an AI gold or gold per turn and then get it back in another deal the same turn in other contexts. For example, sometimes you have a good tech lead but there are not enough techs that you can trade at any one time to get what you want because of prerequisite requirements. Making up the difference with gold or gold per turn and then getting the gold back selling the later tech can provide a way out of that situation. But again, remember that if the AI isn't already willing to provide gold per turn in a deal, it most likly won't be williing to give back gold per turn you give it no matter how much what you offer in the later deal is worth. More complex multi-stage deals are also possible, for example, if a player is two techs ahead on one branch of the tech tree and has reason (for example, a wonder notification pop-up) to believe that an AI is two techs ahead on another branch.
By the way, I hope everyone knows that when you ask an AI what it will give you for something, it rarely offers the most it would be willing to pay. I've even had occasions when all an AI would offer me for a tech was a world map and maybe a handful of loose change but the AI would be willing to give me a tech for the tech if I proposed the deal. A fair amount of trial and error is needed to determine what the most an AI is really willing to pay is. (I hope in Civ 4, they change things so players don't have to engage in that bit of rather tedious micromanagement in order to get the best deal they can.)
Nathan
One I found aggravating last night (in late game AU501) was when Smoke-Jaguar offered 8gpt for a luxury, and my first thought was to milk him for a bit more, and my second thought was "the heck with it, I'm tired, just take the offer." Dear old S-J irately rejected his own offer.
)
).
Comment