Patch 1.20

[MyOlde]

Whether Firaxis wants to get on with Civ4 isn't the point: a patch was promised. 1.15 was called a Beta patch so that's not it. So ... let's have what was promised!

[asleepathewheel]

I thought 1.20 was just supposed to be an official version of 1.18 (I couldn't tell the difference from the readme, though I didn't compare closely) 1.18 is solid, imho. so I wonder why they don't get on with it

[JimMac]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I thought 1.20 was just supposed to be an official version of 1.18 (I couldn't tell the difference from the readme, though I didn't compare closely) 1.18 is solid, imho. so I wonder why they don't get on with it

Maybe Jesse has had second thoughts and decided to include some some useful bug fixes in the next patch?...
Nah, that would be too much to hope for.

[sabrewolf]

[DrSpike]

Good point Sabrewolf.

[Mad Bomber]

There is a 1.18 patch?

I thought the last one was beta 1.15?



MAD BOMBER is getting angry, You wouldn't like MAD BOMBER when he's angry.

[Antrine]

Don't worry Mad Bomber, we (I use the word carelessly) have officially certified beta 1.15 to GOLD.

Yes, it is sadly true, our frustration is showing, however 'we' feel better now. It seems like some 'control' sanity is back in our camp?

[Andydog]

Originally posted by GarP2

There is no other form of entertainment that I can carry out so cheaply, i.e., on a $/hr basis.

Book$/hr > cableTV $/hr > cable modem$/hr

True, if you look at it this way then the game is well worth it's money.

The lack of total functionality of the game is frustrating, as is the fact that a lot could be improved, but it's still a great game, even in its present form. The high number of posters and lurkers in the forums shows how many think so, and the little labels by the posters names (chiefton, etc) show that a lot of people get as much from discussing the game as playing it.

And with this you touch on the real point:

Civ is indeed the ultimate strategy game that people who love strategy love to play, and that people who love strategy love to discuss. These boards contain fantastic discussions about every facet of the game. There are articles on strategy, bugs, exploits, there is even Apolyton University – a brilliant forum (which I’ve only just discovered) dedicated to addressing balance and improving AI behaviour amongst other things.

Imagine if Friaxis were to understand and make use of this resource. They only need to spend a week or so reading the articles and collating the research that has been undertaken to better understand game balance, what needs to be changed to fully balance the game, what exploits exist, and what the critical bugs are that need to be addressed.

If I were running the development team, the first thing I would do after initial game release is post a thread saying: “right chaps, give us a complete list of changes we need to make to the vanilla game, in order of priority, so that the game is balanced and free of exploits”. I’m certain I’d get a quality document in no time at all, which I could use to focus the energies of the team until all the remaining time and money is spent. I would sure as eggs be screaming at those who control the purse strings to give me the funds I need to at least address those items on the list that were regarded by the community as being critical.

(As an aside – after release of the final patch I would then ask that someone on these boards co-ordinate the production of a ‘beginners guide to Civ3’ – which I would then have printed with a page full of credits to Apolyton and to all those who contributed, and distribute it to the shops to promote game sales. Perhaps also include it with a gold edition release. The current game manual is a joke, and does nothing to help new players understand what they should be doing and thus promote game sales via word of mouth.)

And so my point is this: It's such a pity that this ultimate strategy game, the best that money can buy, the game with unlimited potential, and the game that promotes endless discussion, is tainted with a few bugs, imbalances, and exploits that will not be addressed due to mismanagement, lack of commitment, and a failure to tap the goldmine that is Apolyton that is only a few mouse clicks away.

I know Jesse makes use of us to a lesser extent – evidenced by the removal of the RCP exploit and more recently the removal of Radio from the tech tree. But it appears that nobody in Friaxis truly understands what a goldmine these forums are, and until they do, I fear we will have the same issues with Civ4.

[Fried-Psitalon]

With all due respect, I think a little of the Apolyton ego is showing there. This isn't the only civ forum, they don't all agree, the way the vast majority of Apolyton plays civ isn't the only way it's played, and I would also go so far as to guess that the majority of Civ players may not even read forums, and probably don't play above Monarch.

This forum is certainly full of good ideas for a specific caliber and style of play, but there are others, too - and I think that Firaxis is (wisely) casting the net rather wide. I'm a big fan of Apolyton, but we are not the final or neccessarily even the best word on the subject - forgive the heretical nature of those statements.

[Andydog]

Yes agreed - I should have noted that there is lots to be gained from the other sites also - my point remains however that I see little evidence that they are utilised by Friaxis.

[DrSpike]

Well they do post more on CFC than here.

[Andydog]

'They' as in Tavis? I'm sure you're aware that Tavis is Jesse - and while his attempts to involve the various civ communities in his progress with patches is commendable, I don’t regard this as making use of the various communities to help produce a balanced game, that appeals to players of all levels, in the manner I described above.

I prefer Apolyton over CFC so I don’t spend as much time there – has anyone else from Firaxis posted there asking for input into any specific issue?

[DrSpike]

I don't post much there either.........but I browse. It's my impression Tavis posts more there, and MikeB on occasion.

[alexman]

Soren posts here more than at CFC!

I don't agree that Firaxis fails to use feedback from the forums. Changes in C3C were very much based on player feedback from PTW. I promise you they are already doing exactly what Andydog suggests. They just don't do it publicly because the amount of feedback would be overwhelming.

Instead, they post mostly in private forums (such as some private Demo game forums here at Apolyton, for example, and other private forums at CFC) where there are fewer posters they know well, so they have a chance to get some input from the player community without getting overwhelmed.

The problem is that, because of Civ4, they no longer have enough resources allocated to Civ3 to make C3C the best game it could be, and that's a shame.

[Andydog]

Originally posted by alexman
Changes in C3C were very much based on player feedback from PTW.

So alexman are you telling us that, for example, SGL's were introduced after discussions with players in a private forum? What about the new corruption model - was that also discussed in a private forum?

I agree (as I mentioned above) that they have taken some suggestions on board resulting from discussions in various threads, whether they be private or otherwise, but I still think they could have made better use of the community to get the game balanced and bug free, before the funds ran out.

To use my earlier example, if they had asked us for a prioritised list of desired changes to C3C when it was first released, then yes, I'm sure the response would be massive, (and forgive me if my inexperience with these forums is showing here), but I would’ve thought that this massive response could be managed to prevent it from being overwhelming. For example I would expect that a few people would take the reigns, lead the discussions, create the poles etc as required, and build the list up through a co-ordinated effort to satisfy required timescales. Am I being unrealistic here?