q. about tech devaluation

[asleepathewheel]

If I kill a civ that has already researched advances I haven't, then is the tech still marked down, or does it go back to 100%? I'm pretty far behind in a current game and am quickly moving on a far advanced civ, and want to know if I should leave them one burg for awhile.

[chequita guevara]

When you're about to kill the last burg, just offer peace in exchange for all their tech.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
When you're about to kill the last burg, just offer peace in exchange for all their tech.

sometimes that is impossible. you can't trade for techs "down the line".

like, you cant make peace for literacy without having writing.

[asleepathewheel]

well, I might get one tech out of them, but they won't give me any more, techs at the end of the medieval age, beginning of industrial. On emperor.

[Arrian]

And if this is later in the game (say, the industrial era), the tech costs get high enough that civs will refuse to cough up the tech, even if they're down to 1 city.

I'd be interested to see the answer to your question, sleepy.

-Arrian

[steven8r]

I played a recent game as the Japanese and I had the Byzantines (many more techs than I) down to just 1 city. They wouldn't surrender any techs to save their own skin.

All I'm saying is Don't count on extorting too many techs from a 'whiped' civ. It might happen, but don't count on it.

As for the original question: I don't know. In the aforementioned game, the Byz's had Printing Press that they'd sooner die than reveal. Interesting thing is that no one else had it. I wound-up researching it myself (can't remember how much it took, ie. was it full or reduced price). I did manage to get lots of gold from other civs for it though.

Steven

[bvoncranium]

Re: q. about tech devaluation

asleepathewheel asked:
If I kill a civ that has already researched advances I haven't, then is the tech still marked down, or does it go back to 100%? I'm pretty far behind in a current game and am quickly moving on a far advanced civ, and want to know if I should leave them one burg for awhile.

Is there a downside to leaving them 1 town? If you can't think of an important reason, I'd definitely leave them surviving, just to get the research discount on techs. If they trade you some techs alonb the way, that's even better. Once you've caught up in techs, you can then put them out of their misery.

To your question: I suspect that as soon as you wipe out an enemy Civ, you lose the associated research discount, as it is calculated using the number of Civs you are 'aware' of who possess a tech at any point in time. Specifically what would change is the discount fraction, which is proportional to the number of encountered Civs who have the tech / total number of encountered Civs. Therefore the discount could go up or down when a Civ is eliminated, as both the numerator and denominator decrease by one.

Just speculating - bvc

[vmxa1]

Interesting question and I do not have the answer. It would be good to know. Do a count an see what is shows. When you are starting a new tech. Check each turn and tally the beakers and judge the turns. Once you know everyone has the tech you can see what the new discount is in beakers. Then kill then and see if that changes or not.
I am just starting a fresh game now so it will be a long time before I can try it.
Actually I expect to not be in a position to kill any body as this is going to be a sid game. But who knows, for sure I will be able to see everyone already having what ever tech I am researching.

[asleepathewheel]

And the answer is (drum roll please)...........


Just as bvoncranium suggested, when you kill a civ, the game acts as if they were never around, and the price is divided by the remaining civs with the tech. Thus, the price goes up.




(looks like I'll be keeping the gringos around for awhile)

[Tall Stranger]

Interesting. So there is a reason to keep civs with techs you don't have around.

Would that also mean that eliminating a technologically inferior civ helps you catch up to the tech leaders? After all, isn't the cost of researching a tech you don't have affected by the ratio of number of civs with tech to the number of remaining civs?

[steven8r]

Re: Re: q. about tech devaluation

Originally posted by bvoncranium
Is there a downside to leaving them 1 town?

In my game, If I hadn't taken Constantinople (thier last city) then it's quite possible that the other two that I had taken would've fliped back. I couldn't afford that, so I opted for annihilation. Thus, re-increasing the cost for their techs.

Steven

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Tall Stranger
Interesting. So there is a reason to keep civs with techs you don't have around.

Would that also mean that eliminating a technologically inferior civ helps you catch up to the tech leaders? After all, isn't the cost of researching a tech you don't have affected by the ratio of number of civs with tech to the number of remaining civs?

Not sure if it helps you more or thm. My guess is it helps you more. The leader gets no help research a new tech. What is the rate of depreciation as each civ learns a given tech?
If it went 25% off for the second and 50% for the 3rd and 75% after that and you were behind 4 civs, you gain the most.
If you are 2nd or 3rd, you probably want to axe them.

[joncnunn]

It's a ratio of how many civs your aware of having the techs over how many civs your aware of.

If your in first place with 3 AI civs each in a noticeable position, it's marginal advenous for you to let #3 and #4 keep one city especally if it's on an isolated small island well off the coast, because elimating either one would increase the discount #2 would get. Granted wiping out #3 would make it more expensive for current #4, but #2 in techs is more of an issue than #4.

In my own current game, it also would have been a big pain to wipe out #3 rather than let them keep a city because that city was a one tile island with rubber and I would have had to research the bypassed Amphious Warfare tech to build marines.

[vmxa1]

I have not tried to figure the discount out before, but I am playing a game now that I figured it was worth the effort.

So I looked at the Ref chart 1.03 and it said that Iron Working is cost of 6 and so is Philosophy.

The map is std so the rate is 240.

Level is Sid so the factor is 4.

If I have all of that correct both have the same nominal cost.

6 X 240 = 1440

1440/4 = 360 beakers.

I was doing 55 beakers a turn and it said I need 8 turns?

7 turns should be 385, so what gives.

I have contact with Celts that already know at least Philosophy. I did not notice if they know IW, but probably.
I have contact and a war with Korea and I would expect they know both, but I can't be sure. I have yet to see any swords, but that does not mean they don't have them back in the core.

So I would expect at least a slight discount to either techs. I went to IW and it was 7 turns, which suggest a discount.

So what am I missing here? Is the chart wrong on the cost? Std rules, no mods.

[asleepathewheel]

I'm a bit suprised that this hasn't been hammered out (or if it has been, it hasn't been put in an obvious place) Would be very useful information to know exactly what is going on.