ToE Run. Can this be done?

[steven8r]

In this game, I've tried several times and failed to get the ToE to catch-up w/ everyone on techs. To keep me from further frustration, I thought I'd let some 'Poly members give me some pointers.

Edit2: I've been beaten to EVERY Wonder (except Smith's), but have managed to capture several. I want this Wonder! /Edit2

Game Info:
Emperor, Japan, Standard, probably Continents
Civs left: Japan, Aztecs (KAI), Zulu, Celts, Dutch (weak)
I'm currently at Peace w/ everyone. Everyone else is at war w/ Netherlands.

Edit: No patch--C3C 1.00, Accelerated Production=On, Preserve Random Seed=Off /Edit




Some thoughts so far:

I was (still am) behind in techs. Everyone else is working on Industrial Techs and I noticed that no one had Printing Press. So I researched it as it was cheaper than any other tech. I also researched Democracy and was able to sell both to everyone else for lots of cash.

I keep missing ToE by 2-3 turns even w/ Palace prebuild. Texcoco generally gets it before me. I've got 2 productive cities, FreeSetlerCity and Nicea. Coal will be found on the Mountain WNW of Nicea 4-7 (currently unroaded) once Steam is learned.

Can anyone play this one to ToE (and get it) AND let me know how you did? Or just give me some pointers to improve my game?

Thanks.

Steven

P.S. There are 2 laden Galleys (2x Samurai, 1 Worker, 1 Settler) headed to found new towns. One is headed to the Forrest square between Washington and Chicago to snag Silks from Aztecs. The other is going somewhere near Celts/Zulu (I'd been settling near the Gold next to Stavanger.)

Trying to attach game file. If unsuccessful, I will post a link.

[Arrian]

From the screenshot, it looks to me like you don't have enough mines.

Free Settler City, for instance, has a roaded, but not mined, hill it should be using. The forest tiles should be chopped and either mined or irrigated, and then the city can use more mountains (also in need of mines).

Dunno if you have the workers needed to do all of that in time to make a big enough difference, though.

-Arrian

[steven8r]

Some more thoughts:

Rubber will showup SSE of TundraTown in the Forrest, and Oil will appear in the Forrest E of Ashes of Varna.

One playthrough of this game, Aztechs declared war on me and my Samurai (plus Arty and defending Infantry) were able to keep him from taking any of my cities, however I could not press him).

Edit: I called for Peace when he sent in the first Tank (which my 4x Samurai Army dispatched!). But I got scared. Plus his Bombers were totally devastating my cities. Got about 12 MGL's from that fight though--mostly used them to build Factories). /Edit

The Zulu and Aztecs are the researchers in this game and I'm trying not to let them out-do me too bad.

Steven

[ducki]

Realmsbeyond Civ's site has a nice tip on using Micromanagement to get those few extra shields to shave a few turns off of wonders.

I'm not completely clear on it, but it involves working a few turns at a time with a food deficit to work more high-shield tiles, then before starvation, switch back, build some food surplus, rinse, repeat.

At least, that's how I read the tip on RBC.

If you already know this and are doing it, just ignore me.

[steven8r]

Arrian, more mines--check. I do have a save about 40 years before this one. I might have to go back and load that one to build more Workers. I can have some more Workers fairly quickly if I need to in this current game though. I will take that under advisement.

Ducki, I have not been doing that. Thank you for the tip. (It sounds like it might not be too unlike the MM needed for pump cities).

Thanks for the quick input.

Steven

[steven8r]

Currently, FreeSettlerCity can build a Palace in 12 turns. Nicea can do it in 15 (IIRC). I think that FSC would build it too quickly--I might have to lose some shields in that city for a few turns.

FSC can also build the Millitary Academy (already has Pentagon).

I generally lose-out Shakespere's to either Zulu Intombe or Aztecs Texcoco. Both beat me to it by just a few turns. So I've pretty much abandoned that. Sanitation isn't too far off so I don't know if I need the extra growth.

What are some of your thoughts?

Steven

[Aeson]

What patch is it?

[steven8r]

It's not patched. It's C3C straight-up.

Edit: I can't find a link to the 'middle' patch. I have the 1st Beta patch and the 3rd? one, but according to the readme, I need one in the middle. Can someone point me to it? I've got 112 and 115. I think it's something like 113 or so. /Edit

Edit2: This has the gpt bug in it. That's probably why the Aztecs are soooooo wealthy. However, I was hoping that I could benefit from the bug too. I try to get gpt deals as much as possible. /Edit2

Edit3: found the middle patch /edit3

Thanks,

Steven

[steven8r]

DOH!!!

It just occurred to me that it's usually at this point that I switch gov'ts to get into Democracy. It seems that those 2 turns of Anarchy could very well be my problem.

I'll try mining Hills/Mountains between FSC and Nicea and NOT switching govt. Perhaps even w/ somewhat slower Workers this will help-out.

Steven

[Arrian]

What tech path are you taking to Scientific Method? Are you getting Industrialization first and building factories (with prebuilding)?

If you finish a factory the turn you get Industrialization, or close to it, and then turn around and immediately start a prebuild for ToE, maybe that would work.

The Anarchy might hurt, yeah. But it does boost your workers speed, and given time, for a religious civ, the switch probably pays off. Maybe not in time for the ToE race, though.

How many shields is your Palace? FSC is 12 turns away from completing it... is that 12 turns from 600 shields? If so, well, it looks like your prebuild was premature. Unless you're aiming for Universal Suffrage there or something.

-Arrian

[steven8r]

Arrian,

Accelerated Production. Palace is (I think) 300 shields. The 12 turns for FSC is starting-out w/ no completed shields. Nicea can do it in 15 if I switch the Samurai to Palace. Edit: Possibly quicker if I Mine more. Plus RR will be comming fairly soon. /Edit. Edit2: I can do Steam in 4 /Edit2.

I've generally been beelining to Scientific Method. The AI's are (somewhat) slowing-down w/ the Nationalism branch. From here, I've generally been switching to Steam, Electricity, Medicine, SM. (Order varies slightly depending upon what I can buy from AI's).

I generally can purchase Industrialization, but I don't think that I can build a Factory AND Toe.

Universal Sufferage is generally something that I don't even attempt.

In this game, ToE generally gets built by Aztecs in about 13 turns.

Steven

[Arrian]

You can research Steam Power in 4? And perhaps Industrialization in 4 after that?

300/12 = 25 shields per turn in FSC. A factory is 200 shields (8 turns). Think about that.

It looks like FSC is maxed for pop, so here is what I'd try:

1) punch out 1 worker, set research to Steam Power. Bring hordes of workers in from wherever you can get 'em to help mine and eventually railroad.
2) worker complete, switch to palace. Use worker to help mine things.
3) Once you have Steam Power, RR the mined grassland tiles (those go fastest). Continue using the workers to mine things and the goal is to set the city up at Size12 with 0 food extra (or close to it) and maximum shields/turn. Research or trade for Industrialization.
4) Switch the palace prebuild to a factory. Research and/or trade your way toward Scientific Method.
5) Factory complete. This, plus added mines and rr's, should result in a huge production jump for the city.
6) Use Universal Suffrage as a prebuild for ToE. Hopefully this will not get built prior to you getting Sci Method.
7) Build ToE.

During this process, take your 2nd best production center (Nicomedia, Capital City, or perhaps even Tundra town once RR's allow it to use more hills by boosting the grassland irrigation tiles) and use the best prebuild you can to get a factory build ASAP, and then start it on a prebuild for Hoover.

What do you have available for prebuild use besides your palace?

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Crosspost...

13 turns ?

I'm really not used to Accelerated Production.

-Arrian

[steven8r]

Prebuild options,

FP, Millitary Academy, Palace, (possibly buy Free Artistry and do a Shakespere prebuild).

Free Settler City has plenty of Food. That's why the Forrests are still there--to give 2 Shields. I'll try playing w/ RR the Plains to boost food so that more Hills/Mountains can be Mined and Worked.

Steven

[Aeson]

I'm not used to accellerated production, and I have C3C 1.15 installed, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.

First thing is to turn off all the Governors IMO. Swap tiles so you are using the already mined hill by Nicaea. Then start disbanding units to finish projects, especially Courthouses in the NW portion of your empire. I got rid of everything but the Armies and enough Samurai to completely block off the border... the more you get rid of the better off you'll be.

Researching you can get Industrialization in 4, trade for Medicine (~80gpt +600g), trade both those for Nationalism (if you want it, the Dutch aren't doing anything with what you give them anyways). Then trade luxuries and gold (2 Luxuries + 300g) for Electricity, and that will let you be first to Scientific Method. You won't have enough gold to do this unless you get rid of a lot of Pikemen and Samurai though. I got Saltpeter in a trade (forget which) just to be safe, but you can probably pass on it.

I counted shields, and you can finish ToE faster without the Factory. Build Granaries and then Workers, and use those Workers to rail (and then mine) everything around FSC.. which should keep on the Palace (and then Suffrage) prebuild. Don't go to Democracy! You can have enough Workers to build your rails fast, and by dropping a lot of the dead weight units you won't need the lower support costs.

Reykjavic, Ironfish, and Tundratown were all building Workers in my game. Tundratown is already set up so that you can build 1 turn Workers there for as long as you want...