A novel idea. All UU's should be useful. No Industrial Age or Modern UU's.

[Artifex]

I know they tried to balance some UUs good for them But really some UUs are so vastly superior than others I don't understand why they don't make all UUs great for all civs?

Also, UU's that come in the industrial and modern ages are too late and the usefulness by then compared to a good ancient or middle age UU is greatly reduced, there is no comparison.

[steven8r]

[sarcasm]
Long Live the F15!!! Now if we just had a UU equivalent of Modern Armor !
[/sarcasm]

One problem would be that some of the civs weren't around in certain ages. So Ancient and Medeival Age units would be very dificult for some civs like America, Russia, and probably some others that I'll think of later.

Steven

[Inverse Icarus]

ever think that UUs are based with civ traits in mind?

take Egypt. Religious + Industrious is a power house, and a chariot is sub-par.

[MattPilot]

I like military + industrious. To bad China is the only civ with those traits out of so many.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by Uber KruX
ever think that UUs are based with civ traits in mind?

take Egypt. Religious + Industrious is a power house, and a chariot is sub-par.

I respectfully suggest that if you feel the War Chariot is a sub-par unit, you drop by the multiplayer arena of the ladder for a wee bit. We might be able to offer evidence by which you may reconsider.

[Dominae]

War Chariot is not a sub-par unit in SP, either...

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon

I respectfully suggest that if you feel the War Chariot is a sub-par unit, you drop by the multiplayer arena of the ladder for a wee bit. We might be able to offer evidence by which you may reconsider.

What say you of the units in question, F-P? How do F-15s, Men O'War etc shape up in MP? Are they useless?

[Vince278]

Originally posted by steven8r
[sarcasm]
Long Live the F15!!! Now if we just had a UU equivalent of Modern Armor !
[/sarcasm]

Like the Panzer?

[Filippo]

Actually I much prefer a F-15, or Panzer, or Cossak to ANY ancient age kickass. The War Chariot is absolutely the crappiest special unit in the game IMHO. Why ? Well very simple. The special unit gives you a one-time super bonus at its first victory, which is the Golden Age. Now let's think about it a moment: the Wheel is a first level tech. I'll have war chariots fighting against my enemies when I have about 5-6 cities with their squares almost all undeveloped and only few citizens. 20 turns in the early ages also fly by quite quickly and mean much less than further on. So do I want a Golden Age in this situation, or when I have 20+ cities with 20+ city squares that can take use of the GA gold and shield bonus ? do yuo have a slight idea of the difference of bonus you get with a Golden Age in the early stage of the game and a GA later on ? I personally think the best moment for a GA is late Middle Age / beginning of Industrial Age.

Also until C3C air superiority is very important in the latest times. The AI tends to build loads of bombers. And F-15 helps a lot with(against) that. I love it and I hardly can think of it as useless.

[Plotinus]

Originally posted by MattPilot
I like military + industrious. To bad China is the only civ with those traits out of so many.

And what's wrong with China? They have a great UU too!

[MattPilot]

nothing is wrong with china. Infact, i play them. I just wish there were more choices regarding that trait combination.

[MotownDennis]

Originally posted by Filippo
Actually I much prefer a F-15, or Panzer, or Cossak to ANY ancient age kickass. The War Chariot is absolutely the crappiest special unit in the game IMHO. Why ? Well very simple. The special unit gives you a one-time super bonus at its first victory, which is the Golden Age.

Sorry - but I must concur with Fried and Dominae on this one. The War Chariot is a blockbuster UU. Let's play some MP and you'll see that your well-timed GA isn't going to do you any good if you are DEAD.

GA timing is absolutely overrated IMHO. People act like it's the be all and end all. I don't need a well-timed GA if my neighbors have been relegated to "archaeologist fodder".


Mo D

[Arrian]

Frankly, the WC does not equal a badly timed GA.

You can get out of despotism before launching a WC offensive, and that's what really matters, IMO. Late ancient age GAs with a horde of WCs have served me well in SP. If you don't want to have your GA that early, fine, you can build horsemen instead, IIRC, and still use a warrior -> sword upgrade for a rush. Then the WC is around for mass production and upgrade to knights with Leos, if you can get it.

In MP, clearly it's a solid UU. Cost-effective to say the least. It certainly helped save GS's ass in the PTWDG*.

-Arrian

* - Ok, the timing more than anything else, because we had rather mountainous terrain to deal with and incoming immortals, so our primary saviors were pikemen, catapults and med inf. But the WC was there to trigger our GA when we needed it most, and low-production cities were able to put out 2.1.2. units for the bargain price of 20 shields.

[EnduringBlue]

I was interested in the original question...how often do the later UU's actually end up being useful? I have never built an F15 as an American...I am always bound for victory by the time it is available. The only time panzers made a difference was when I switched strategies late in the game and wanted to blitzkrieg my allies of two millennia. Otherwise, I would agree the earlier ones have a greater advantage. A UU you never use is a disadvantage.

[Arrian]

Not always. Sometimes having the standard units available instead of a UU is better.

For instance, I have at times considered Legionaries to be a disadvantage of playing Rome.

WHAT?? AM I INSANE??

No, I'm not. There have been times when I've really wanted to sword rush an AI civ, but didn't want my GA yet. I would have loved to have had swordsmen available. But legionaries replace swords.

In PTW, when I played a couple of games as the Mongols, I wished I'd had normal knights instead of Keshiks - the knights were just better.

But, if the F15 really bothers people, I could imagine switching the American UU to a "minuteman" - a rifleman equivalent. That's early industrial, early enough to make a difference in some games.

-Arrian