When playing a non-religious Civ: How many revolutions? Despotism->Republic only one?

[Risa]

I have switched to democracy in several games (non-religious), purely because I don't want to see those corruption. I normally beeline to democracy tech (for trade and wonder building), but no revolution until entering industrial era. At that point, first wave of military expansion has over, wonder race ends as well, I can afford the Anarchy period.

BTW, no democracy in OCC or 5CC, never.

[Cerbykins]

It doesn't really help when Demo war ASSUMES Universal Suffrage, either
If I were ever stopped form getting it, it would quickly become a no-brainer and I'd stick to Republic. And as I push the difficulty up - that'll likely eventually happen

[Theseus]

Is it just me? I think Republic SUCKS coming out of Despotism.

Which means two gov switches. I've been playing Desp->Mon->Demo/Rep, depending on then circumstances.

And yes, the second period of non-REL anarchy is painful, but I've been finding that there is a period where my core cities (this is C3C BETA, so only one core) have built everything I want, and the rest are on one or two shield rates at building Courthouses, so that it's actually OK to not be adding shields, and I in fact generate greater excess gold.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Theseus
Is it just me? I think Republic SUCKS coming out of Despotism.

I agree that an early switch to Republic is not the advantage it once was -- the support costs (together with scarcer luxuries) means it can be a painful switch when you have towns and virtually no cities. I haven't seen it as terrible yet, but I have seen it cause me to question why I pushed so hard for an early switch. If you're building up forces for a mass upgrade and assault, then I think Republic's unit costs, combined with increased upgrade costs, can really make Monarchy a more interesting choice.

Catt

[ducki]

Originally posted by vmxa1
I think they do not suffer much of a delay when switch, even though not religious.

The AI has a bonus called "Max government transition time" starting at Monarch.
Monarch - 4
Emperor - 3
Demigod - 2
Deity - 2
Sid - 1

So that's quite a bonus they get, being able to - at the higher levels - switch multiple times and often still have less Anarchy than a one-switch human.


Edit: I didn't include Chieftan, Warlord, or Regent because they are set to 0 which usually(in programmerland) means not applicable, though I could be wrong.

[vmxa1]

Catt I just wait longer to switch to Republic so it is not so bad (unit cost). I do not beeline for republic either now as getting it will not do me that much good right away.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Catt
If you're building up forces for a mass upgrade and assault...

And when is that not the case?

* For me, at least.

* At Emperor or above.

* Given resource issues.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Theseus
Is it just me? I think Republic SUCKS coming out of Despotism.

The first week I got the game I started a govt balance thread arguing that one-switch policy had been reinforced, instead of democracy being made worth the switch in the late game. I also said I felt you couldn't go republic early enough after the change.

Many weeks on I stand by my posts in that thread, though I would probably downplay slightly some of the emphasis from the latter point. If you set out to conquer what you need early enough, and get enough cities, you can switch circa 500BC if you disband many old warrior MP. This can leave you a little stretched, so some care is needed, but its usually worth expending some effort to do it correctly to get out of despotism as early as possible. An early palace jump if often a useful aid.

On harder levels sometimes you just have to accept you ain't getting republic that early anyway...........often on Demigod or higher Monarchy then a representative govt later is best IMO.

[Arrian]

Theseus,

I've probably been doing ok with early republic switching because I have not yet done the mass upgrade and kill thing in Conquests. I've played out 3 or 4 games, and done plenty of fighting... just later.

Given the bonus tech for philo thing, coupled with the addition of SGLs and the problems with the FP, I've gone back to being more of a peaceful builder type (at least in the early going). So when I switch over, my support costs aren't too bad, and are mostly due to workers

-Arrian

[Theseus]

Arrian, you should be ashamed of yourself, you early builder you.