Lack of resources: good or bad?

[MyOlde]

Is anyone troubled by the lack of resources in the new game? Playing on a standard size map on regent as Russia, I had 13 or 14 cities going, got military tradition (for Cossacks), and had 1) no iron, 2) no horses), and 3) no saltpetre.

I know I don't need all those for Cossacks but it just seemed a considerable hardship. Okay, I could trade for one or more of these, right? I gave away the farm to get horses and iron but couldn't get salt peter. I had also researched steam power but couldn't build railroads because I had NO COAL!

After going to war and getting the saltpetre, I built some Cossacks but the rest of the world ganged up on me and I finally gave up.

Is there a way to adjust resources in the editor? I am utterly editor-ignorant so any help here would be appreciated. But I'm more interested to learn how you are handling the lack of resources. (I've played enough games that it seems to be fairly usual.)

[Antrine]

I think 'lack of resources' SUCKS!!!

That said, I modded it out, all my worlds are very rich, vibrant and robust, every civ has near immediate access to everything straight away and we still all leave much on the table.

Of course, this IS just my opinion, your experience may vary.

Sincerely,

[Kuciwalker]

I hate it when Refining comes around and you find out that, because there are virtually no deserts, there is about one oil for every two civs.

[mrmitchell]

I don't know too much about the editor, but it just sounds like you're awfully unlucky. My suggestions:

1) Expand agressively in the Ancient Age. Bloat up your Empire until it bumps the borders of the other ones, and fill in every empty city location there is. That's one way of assuring you'll get a lot of resources.
2) If you happen to start on a huge expanse of grassland, so you can't have anything that's only on Desert or Mountain (or vice-versa) then attack so that you gain a little variety with your terrain types.
3) If you notice the enemy has a resource that you don't, strike and get it ASAP if at all possible.
4) Remember that in Civ, that one tile of Iron supplies Iron to your entire civilization. So, that's got to be one feckin' huge iron deposit. So the scarcity isn't all that unrealistic really.

How to increase resource appearance:
-Open C3C Editor
-Scenario > Custom Rules
-OK
-Rules>Edit>Natural Resources
-Increase appearance ratio by whatever you feel suitable. (I can't remember how much they reduced them in the new exp pack, but I think it was to 1/3, so multiply the current ratio by 3)
-Do that for every resource
-Close
-File > Save > save it in the filename that you wish.
-You'll have to open that scenario when you want to play with resource abundance.

You can make these changes to the basic game too, but I STRONGLY recommend against that. Whenever you make any changes to the basic game scen (conquests.bic), MAKE SURE you BACK IT UP.

[MyOlde]

Many thanks. Especially mrmitchell. Don't know whether I'll monkey in the editor yet but it's nice to know I can.

[WarpStorm]

I haven't seen that bad of maps, you must be unlucky (or I must be lucky). In any case, I think less resources is a good thing. It forces interaction between civs and adds challenges to overcome.

[vee4473]

I have found that sometimes resources can be so scarce, that you can't even trade for them.

Even finding a civ that has some extra resources is a *****.

Let alone hoping that he hasn't traded them to someone else.

I can't understand why they made resources even more hard to find in conquests. civ 3 had it about right.

unless they aren't and i'm just unlucky too.

[Jaybe]

The "problem" with reduced resources is that you end up with "3rd world" nations that just do not have the wherewithall to compete. If you do not win the lottery, YOU could be one of those unfortunates.

In the epics where I have been agricultural, I have done quite well, REX-wise, and the first civ on the continent that attacks me is history.

[vmxa1]

I feel the lack of resource/lux is turning C3C into a must war game. I like the concept of some missing, but it seems to be a bit out of alignment.

[Fatwreck]

I can only speak for myself and in my experience, and that is a couple of epic games, the lack of resources is positive...

Maybe this has something to do with me mostly playing huge maps, and many of the civs get knocked out in the beginning so resources most of the time are enough for everyone...

[Inverse Icarus]

it's a lot of fun in MP games.

as for SP, you do end up with a lot of 3rd world nations. in my current game, the Inca were larger than the maya (literally double the size), but had no resources, while the maya had horses and iron. needless to say, the inca are dead.

it's really fun to fight for the iron though, but i'm a warmonger at heart .

here's a screen from my first conquests game i didn't have any oil in all that land, but the byzantines managed to sneak in a while back

[kring]

Distribution of resources in C3C is TOTALLY different (details)

Originally posted by embryodead
Most have already noticed that there are less strategic resources in C3C epic game than in Civ3/PTW. Well it's much more than that. The distribution pattern is totally different. BTW if you just want to know how to get PTW resource occurence in C3C, jump to the end of the post...
If you're a modder, you might want to read the whole, since you will most likely have to change appearance ratios in your mod when converting it from PTW to C3C.

For PTW:
1). strategic resources: RATIO * #PLAYERS / 100, rounded down
2). luxuries: random, from 50 to 100% of #PLAYERS (est.)
unless there is ratio given, then the formula is the same as for 1).
3). generator checks how much space is left (out of the approx. 4% of them map), divides that by the number of bonus resources, rounds that down and distibutes them, so there is the same amount of all.
Note: map sizes and terrain features are irrelevant, unless you mess with extreme values (ie. 16x16 tiles maps etc.)

BTW it is completly different from what help file says, but you can test for yourself that the help is wrong both for PTW and C3C stating that a ratio of 160 should give 16 resources in 8 player game (it gives 12 in PTW and 9 in C3C).

For C3C:
The test shown was made on the unmodded PTW & C3C, standard map, 8 players, default world settings (age, land etc.), but the general idea is valid for any game, modded or not (I started testing in my mod, which has 39 resources). 10 maps were generated, C3MT was used to count resources. Other combinations were just checked to see if anything changes.



Further experiments
Keep in mind that none of the values are valid for a particular resources, since these can be modded at will. The values are rather valid for a given resource type. Why so much more Whales and Fish then? It seems that the more terrain of a given type (ie. sea), the more resources C3C will create. When I allowed Whales in plains, deserts etc., C3C generated less of them (no more than 18). Then, when I removed them from the sea, C3C generated less Whales than Game, Wheat etc.

Unique resources
Yes, it is now possible. The minimal number of strategic resources in PTW was 2, regardless of any settings. In C3C it has changed to 1, so you can finally make a truly unique resource.

Summary
1). C3C generates about 1/3 less strategic and luxury resources than PTW with the same settings. The minimal amount is 1.
2). C3C generates much more bonus resources, evenly distributing on a given terrain type and with respect to the amount of that terrain on the map (which directly translates to much more resources in water than on the land). This is actually quite an improvement. PTW generated the same amount of all bonus resources, which was the cause of common "fish shortage" feeling in many mods
3). In C3C world shape/features affect the distribution of resources, unlike in PTW.

I state that the new formula for resources with ratio set is:
RATIO * #PLAYERS / 133, rounded down
it seems valid for all tests I made for unmodded game as well as my mod, though it will vary slighly depending on the world shape/climate etc.

If you want your PTW resources back...
Just multiply all ratios by 1.33
These are correct values for you: Iron & Horses: 212, Coal, Saltpeter, Oil, Rubber: 160, Uranium: 140
This gives the PTW results in most cases. C3C tended to give 7 Uranium, instead of 8, so I raised it to 140.
Not much can be done about luxuries - you will get 3 to 6 instead to 4 to 8. You can set ratio for them, but then, you lose randomness.
You will get less bonus resource of course, like in PTW, though they will be still distributed in C3C "better" ie. more fishes/whales, less oasis etc.

[Sarxis]

The ratios have been working out nicely in my current games. Its really making me have to trade or conquer for those that I don't currently have- and I've yet to play a game where I had NONE at all.

[Cerbykins]

In any case, if you play with lots of civs...a few are sure to die out on mid and higher levels...so -ALMOST- problem solved

[justjake73]

i didn't have any oil in all that land, but the byzantines managed to sneak in a while back

Just goes to prove that the AI knows in advance where the resources are before discovering the "revealer tech"....and why they colonize in the middle of Deserts and Tundra