Ducki Does C3C at Emperor

[ducki]

Civ3 Conquests 1.12 BETA
Warpstorm's Watercolor .biq
Edit(I just realized this might be problematic, since it's a scenario biq. If so, is there something I can do to un-Warpstorm it for you guys?)
Standard Size, everything else Random.

I didn't intend this to be my posted Emperor game; I was merely showing my wife the Watercolor mod and it came up Spain with a lake, a cow, and wine.
I've been greatly enjoying Spain of late, so I took it for a spin. It's turned out to be very odd, I think. Anyway, here's the save, 4000BC screenie to follow, then a rundown of where I am and how I got there with a current save followed by a current screenie.

I'm not sure why, but I'm doing far better than I thought I would. Maybe some of you pros can tell me why.

Oh, for those that weren't around or didn't follow my Regent and Monarch threads, you can take a look to see how these went in the past. Basically, I post progress reports, screens and saves - anyone that wants to play along for comparison or whatever is welcome to, but my main goal is to get assistance and advice from everyone. Then I make my own decisions, often explaining why. If you have advice, please let me have it, but more importantly tell me why.
This will be my first full Emperor game - I've played a few up to 6 or so cities just to know what to expect from the AI.

Ducki does Regent

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1380414#post1380414

Ducki does PtW Monarch

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1436633#post1436633

Now, on to the show.

[ducki]

And here's the start location.
If you want to play along for comparison, stop reading here to avoid spoilage.

[ducki]

Pottery 100%
Warrior-Worker(thanks Aeson)-Warrior-Settler-Warrior-Settler-Granary(or Warrior)-Warrior(or Granary) - something like that.

After Pottery, beelined for Philo and got it!!!
Traded it around and chose Monarchy for the freebie. I know some of you think that's an exploit or "dodgy", but I think if the Diplo-phone is available to me, it's fair play. The AIs would do the same, I bet.

Anyway, I had 2 turns left on a settler and a border-town Temple, so I waited two turns and switched to Monarchy and ignored the optionals, going instead for Currency.
Monarchy I held onto for a good while, then traded for Mapmaking and Code of Laws, and later for COnstruction, vaulting me into the Middle Ages...
...first!
I've actually had tech parity for 5 or 6 techs now - is that normal?
I am ahead by Currency on everyone and more than that on 2 or 3 others.

I was able to Temple-steal the Celt's only potential source of Iron and a few turns later Lugudnum flipped to me just as I was about to complete a Temple next to it. That got me a second luxury. I was trying really hard to expand out to a lone Ivory, but the Maya's border expanded before I could get there(IIRC).
I also settled close to Babylon's capitol to nab horses.

I grabbed a 1-tile Island off Babylon's coast after losing a sea-going Curragh and plan to send that Galley out there. Since everyone is on my pangea, maybe I can nab an extra island just for my vacation home. I'm pretty much out of "acceptable" places to settle.

I've bought 2 or 3 slaves as part of tech deals, I've met everyone.
Only 1 or 2 wonders have been built, both by AI, one of them the Colossus, so I fear there may be a cascade soon.

I'm working on the Hanging Gardens, but wonder if I should just nab Mausollos to be "safe". I'll be devastated if I lose all those shields.

My inter-city roads are passable but not great - there's a few "extra" moves that need to be fixed. My military road network desperately needs improving - if I had to get to my border to defend, I'd be in trouble. Tile improvements are ok, not great. Thanks to a recent post by Dominae, I remembered to irrigate the grassland cow.

[ducki]

And here's the screen for that last save, 775BC.

[ducki]

Now then, the questions.

Why am I, even if only barely, in the tech lead this early?
Why didn't Brennus get that Iron?

More practially, do I:
... try to wait out the Hanging Gardens build, or just settle for Mausollos?
... try taking some AI cities now or wait? I'm only weak to the far off Aztecs, everyone else I'm either Average or Strong, and Brennus, as mentioned, has no Iron.
... try to squeeze a cruddy town in west of Pamplona to grab silks or just plan on getting there with Knights?
... bring the Galley home, grab a settler+spearman before exploring that oddly large Sea to the east of my island, or explore first and not risk losing those shields?
... Research Feudalism, hoping Babylon will get Monotheism putting me closer to Knights?
... Start all over because this is apparently a fluke game and I shouldn't be doing this well?

Let's hear from all you old-timers, pros, and experts.
(P.S. Theseus, I have a Viking emp. save that you might like. Looked challenging, but when I showed the watercolor mod to my wife, I just couldn't pass on this start.)

[steven8r]

Well Ducki, here are some thoughts:

I have absolutely no idea why you're in the tech lead. Possibly because of the contacts that you've made? I consider myself lucky if I'm only an Age behind everyone it techs.

As to why you snagged the Iron from the Celts, it looks like the Iron is only 1 tile from your city. It is 3 from Entremont. Or, are you asking, 'Why didn't Brennus settle nearer those Mountains?' In that case, I don't know that either.

Looks like you've REXed very well. You've planted 9 cities and Culture-Fliped an additional one. You've got fairly good infrastructure, but I think it needs improvement.

Looks like West is a good place to start expanding. As you mentioned, there's Silk, and even further West, near Irroquois lands, looks like some unclaimed Wheat. That might be a little far off, but not too soon to start thinking about it.

It looks like the Celts are fairly weak. Entremont is large, but the other cities are smaller and there's not too many of them. Alesia has Dyes, AND is already connected to your road network. If you strike, strike the Celts and strike hard.

Just my two cents worth.

BTW: You've become my new 'Emperor Game Idol'. I aspire to start a game and play as well as Ducki. Ducki The Emperor's Emperor!!!

Steven

[Catt]

Originally posted by ducki
Why am I, even if only barely, in the tech lead this early?

Because you played it very well, employing shrewd researching and trading tactics.

Catt

[Cerbykins]

2nd era by 775BC is what freaks me out :P
Might be the scenario, but I doubt it. Let's face it, I just don't get that sort of tech speed. Parity and lead yes, even on my latest Monarch game. Sure as heck not THAT fast, even exploring

Is Emperor THAT big a jump?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by ducki
Thanks to a recent post by Dominae, I remembered to irrigate the grassland cow.

Excellent! Now I noticed you put a Mine on the Grassland Wines; if you had put Irrigation there instead, you would have had +5 Food per turn in Madrid.

I'm glad you're giving Emperor a shot. Good luck!


Dominae

[ducki]

I never even thought about irrigating that one, Dom. I am in desperate need of shields in both Madrid and Barcelona. I'm racing really hard to get Leo's, now, after getting the HG.
If I get it, I'm upgrading everything to Knights and Muskets and eating someone for lunch.

I just checked my last screenshot. I need to post another screen and save, but I finished off Brennus, denied Feudalism to the Aztecs, prompting a war in which I saw 1 sword, 1 archer, and 1 spear. Sued for peace once my alliance with Inca(threw in a free Luxury, thanks Catt - or was that someone else recently?) ran out - I didn't feel like going that far to fight just yet.

Anyway, look for another report later today, after I get to play a few more turns and the kid takes a nap.

I'd still like some of you guys to try playing this one a little bit to see if the AI was riding the "short bus" in this game or if I just got lucky or what. I don't feel I'm that good a player to be in this good a position - something had to have helped me out, a lot.

[Harovan]

The starting position is a complete 4 turn settler factory. Irrigate the cow and the wine, mine the two shielded grasslands and one unshielded and keep at least one forest in the city radius (while chopping the others to speed the granary). Let then the city (guarded by 2 warriors for happiness) float between size 4 (0% lux) and 5 (10% lux, micromanage! Even if it hurts!), churning out settlers every 4 and workers every 2 turns. You will outexpand the AIs easily.

[CerberusIV]

The tech lead doesn't seem that outrageous. I just started an emperor game (I try one from time to time) as Scandinavia.

Random map turned out to be archipelago with 3 other civs on my landmass. I got enough space for 4 cities (the neighbours have 3-6 each) mostly surrounded by marsh or jungle.

I would normally have given up by now BUT...

I beelined Philosophy and got it first, trading Alphabet and Writing for the early techs along the way. Mapmaking was the most expensive and useful free tech I could take so I did. THEN I got a scientific leader from it!

The Pyramids for only 4 cities in poor terrain or the Great Lighthouse. The Lighthouse methinks.

I have contact with all 7 civs and some other islands to expand to. 5 movement galleys are cool!

Apologies but I'm not trying to threadjack, just to say that you can stay in the game at emperor if you tech trade hard enough.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
I beelined Philosophy and got it first, trading Alphabet and Writing for the early techs along the way. Mapmaking was the most expensive and useful free tech I could take so I did. THEN I got a scientific leader from it!

Sometimes luck awards the brave. I played around with demigod recently, drew Byzantium and an Archipelago, which was really a distributed Pangaea with lots of small straits and land bridges, so I got contact to all civs early and could keep myself up to date with tech whoring and own research, even though my terrain was really ****ty. When Currency was the last mandantory tech left in the ancient age, I thought I go for Literature instead. Voilà, I got it and there was an SGL! Guess what wonder I rushed?

[vmxa1]

Sir Ralph that is what we call "clean living". To bad you can't count on it.

[Dominae]

I just played this game up until 775BC as per ducki's first screenshot (see below for mine). I wanted to see if this really is a flukey Emperor game, and maybe provide ducki with a few tips here and there.

As Sir Ralph pointed out, the starting location is perfect for a Settler pump. All you need to do is figure out the best way to get to a 4-turn pump, while thinking about expansion, research, etc. I decided to go "no military" for the first part of the game, as follows:

1. Madrid (capital city):

Warrior
Worker
Curragh
Granary
Settlers until 775BC

2. Barcelona (second city):

Worker
Worker
Granary
Workers until 775BC

3. Toledo, Santiago, Pamplona (other core cities):

Barracks
Warriors/Workers

4. Seville, Murcia, Zaragoza, Valencia (outer rim cities):

Temple (via poprush)
Catapults

---

I think one of ducki's big "mistakes" in this game was not exploiting the Grassland Wheat and Wines just West of the starting location to create another +5 Food per turn pump city. With one city producing Workers as efficiently as possible under Despotism, and the other doing the same for Settlers, all other cities can more or less focus on other things (like military).

With 3-tile spacing, I grabbed just as much land as ducki yet have more production centers. The other civs did not appear to prioritize Culture very much, as my borders spilled over onto at least two Luxuries and Horses that the AI had "claimed" for itself (I love how the AI places its cities with resources in mind, but then neglects to build cultural improvements to exploit said resources in the outer tiles of city radii).

Regarding research, I did the same thing as ducki early on: Pottery, Writing, Philosophy. The Curragh that I built got me Contacts with everyone pretty fast, which is why I managed to achieve tech parity at Writing. Philosophy netted me Code of Laws, and with that the tech lead.

(I would like to take this moment to again voice my opinion that the free tech at Philosophy is too powerful in the human player's hands at difficulties Demigod and below, and makes Deity a whole lot easier when it works. Forget it on Sid.)

After Code of Laws I proceeded to Republic, but realized half way through that my 30 Warriors were going to cost me a lot of upkeep under a representative government. Thumbs up to ducki for seeing the big picture with respect to the changes in Conquests and opting for Monarchy instead.

As you can see from the screenshots, at the same time in the game I'm two turns behind ducki in research. This, I believe, is mostly because of my reticence to trade techs around; when I play for a quick Domination victory (as I'm doing here), I prefer to keep the AI civs as backward as possible, especially those I plan to conquer first (on this map, pretty much all of them!). The game plan I've set up is beat up on all the AI civs (starting with the Babs), and this plan's execution would be severely hampered by too many Pikemen and Musketmen.

Wow, this has been a rambling post (or feels like it). Three conclusions:

1. This is not that weird/easy an Emperor game, but it is certainly not representative. It is easier than most due to a number of factors, including the poor AI starting locations, the Pangea map setting, and the fact that the other civs have constantly been fighting (in my game, at least). Again, it also underlines how powerful and realistic the Philosophy beeline is, even on the harder difficulties (Emperor and Demigod).

2. Nonetheless, I think ducki is on his way to being a regular Emperor-level player. It certainly takes some skill and know-how to ahieve such early tech dominance on Emperor.

3. The main difference between my game and ducki's is the level of micromanagement that went into crafting our empires. I feel that my game is a ways ahead of ducki economically, and I attribute it all to micro. So if you want to beat Emperor (or even Sid!), the answer is simple: spend more time during your turns!

ducki: feel free to ask me specific questions about my game, while it's all still in my head.


Dominae