Sinning in Civ

[Theseus]

I've been meaning to post this for a bit, but have been occupied with holiday berserking (and recovery).

I referred to some horrible Civ deeds in the thread I did about Atari in the NY Times, but didn't come clean. Here is the true story.

My first C3C epic game was as Scandy, to see the change in traits in action, and oh, well, for other reasons.

Given the FP problems, I decided to use Berserks as reaaaaallll bastards, not so much to gain territory as to f*ck with strong AI civs... rape, pillage, and burn.

The screenshot below is of my first attack on the Ottomans, who were a truly scary KAI in this game.

This game, and what I did, made me feel UNBELIEVABLY guilty, enough that it has had me pondering: 1) How much this game sucks you in, and what that means in the context of gaming / entertainment (see the aricle), and 2) whether I need a Civ psychiatrist.

Here it is: I planned on trimming the Ottomans, and the other strong AI civs from the sea... just beating the ever lovin' cr*p outta them, not being strong enough to hold territory.

Starting with Istanbul... this meant razing a city that had the Oracle, Leonardo's Workshop (after a quick round of upgrades), J.S. Bach's Cathedral, and Universal Sufferage.

I did it. THE PAIN, THE MISERY, THE TORTURE!!! I still can;t believe I did that!

(but damn, in a roleplaying way, I felt 7 feet tall, in berseker mode, and let me tell ya 'bout bein' a bad *ss!)

[CerberusIV]

Try the Middle Ages Conquest as Denmark/Norway or better still Sweden. The way to growth and success is slave workers. The way to VP's is to raze everyone else's coastal towns, kill their kings and destroy their civs.

I marched across Iberia (east to west) destroying the Castilians (2 3xBerserk armies). When I reached the Atlantic I had about 7 or 8 slave workers that would not fit into the available longships so slaughtered them on the beach.

How near to black hole dark is your dark side?

[Paddy]

Cerberus, you one bloody bad dude sometimes,,,,, on the beach

[Arrian]

razing a city that had the Oracle, Leonardo's Workshop, J.S. Bach's Cathedral, and Universal Sufferage.

I'm not sure I could bring myself to do that. That's just evil.

-Arrian

[Plotinus]

As someone posted somewhere else once, it would be nice if there were a "moral victory" option, where you win by being incredibly nice all the way through! I suppose that is what the Diplomatic Victory is, in essence. Personally I'd like it if the other civilisations took much greater offence at things like razing cities, and if such actions might encourage them to band together against guilty parties.

[mrmitchell]

As someone posted somewhere else once, it would be nice if there were a "moral victory" option, where you win by being incredibly nice all the way through! I suppose that is what the Diplomatic Victory is, in essence. Personally I'd like it if the other civilisations took much greater offence at things like razing cities, and if such actions might encourage them to band together against guilty parties.

That's what the Diplomatic Victory is. Play nice, and you win because everyone likes you! (Sissies )

I'm pretty sure it doesn't already account for this, but I would like to see AI Civs hate you even more for:

-If the city is at least two eras old
-If the city contains a Wonder at least an era old
-If the city is a City or Metropolis

[ducki]

I think the extra hate is too harsh considering that you already get hate for stuff that's not your fault.
If the not-my-fault things were fixed, then razing a wonder or similar should create the opposite of "Linked Alliance".

In fact, I think it should reduce WW for the offendee, due to jingoistic/nationalistic outrage. Maybe for C4.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
Try the Middle Ages Conquest as Denmark/Norway or better still Sweden. The way to growth and success is slave workers. The way to VP's is to raze everyone else's coastal towns, kill their kings and destroy their civs.

Was there an incident in the recent past which led you to this conclusion?

[Cerbykins]

At last Theseus, your wonder addiction is cured

[Kuciwalker]

Starting with Istanbul... this meant razing a city that had the Oracle, Leonardo's Workshop (after a quick round of upgrades), J.S. Bach's Cathedral, and Universal Sufferage.

:vomit:

[steven8r]

Did you Raze it, or Abandon it?

If you waited and used Leo's for upgrades, then you probably had to abandon it, unless you gave it back to them and then took it again, it which case you could RAZE it.

I'm not sure how much distinction the AI gives between Razing and Abandoning, but somehow I think that Razing is somewhat worse.

Originally posted by Cerbykins
At last Theseus, your wonder addiction is cured

Indeed!

Steven

[steven8r]

One other thought:

It seems that (at least in Theseus' hands) Berzerks retain their utility well into the next age!

Pure

Steven

[Vince278]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
How near to black hole dark is your dark side?

You seem perfectly normal to me.

[Vince278]

The only sin in Civ is letting the AI take advantage of you.

[Aqualung71]

Not much point keeping it if there's a chance it will flip back anyway, costing you your entire garrison and then a bunch more units and a whole lot of time to transport them over when you return for the revenge attack.

Deep inside enemy territory, there is little utility in retaining cities just for the wonders, IMHO.

The only exception I believe is when it is the start of a prolonged campaign to take over their territory...but in this case it seems your Beserk's are of the "rape and pillage and get home in time for tea" type!