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I was discussing this with the ladder players, and someone ran a few tests and came up with some results that I must say surprised me. It appears that Feudalism is *never* actually the "best" government to use in any given situation, war or peace, big nation or small. Unless I'm missing something, while there are at least situational uses for every other government, Feudalism is hanging out to dry.
This testing was done by Wtiberon, to give credit where it is due.
Test 1: Ideal, happy-expansion environment:
"I created 20 cities with 8 improvements in each, there were 7 size 12 cities, 4 size 7 cities, 5 size 6 cities, a size 4 city a size 3 city and a size 8 city. I roaded all the land in empire, set 93 units variously throughout the cities, cities production were placed on wealth and 5 luxury resouces were placed inside the empire.
Monarchy was able to research at 50 percent with +5 gold, Republic was able to research at 60 percent with +0 gold, Feudalism was able to research at 30 percent at +3. Fairly close together.
When I added 40 more units (simulating war) Fuedalism was running a -23 deficit at 0 research, Republic ran a + 22 at 40 percent, and monarchy ran a +4. "
Now obviously, this test is for a larger, more expansive environment, and I objected on those grounds. Feudalism is a government of ICS placement and in-your-face fighting, said I, that 5 support at town size is meant to be used, said I.
So, this test was run:
Test 2, the backed-in-corner-and-hating-life scenario:
In this scenario we are backed in a corner next to another civ with nothing but grassland and tundra to call home. Only one river by the capital and not much else.
I planted 17 cities very tightly packed together (one to two spaces) as is the ICS style. All squares within the empire are roaded and 88 units were placed variously throughout the empire. There are 4 size 2 towns, 2 size 3 towns, 8 size 4 towns, and 2 size 6 towns. Each town has 2 improvements for a total of 34 improvements and production was set to wealth.
In monarchy we would be able to research at 50 percent with +1 gold per turn, Republic did horribly only able to research at 10 percent with +2 gold, and the big winner is Fuedalism which researches at 70 percent with a +8 gold.
After adding 40 units to similulate warfare Republic isn't even worth mentioning, Monarchy was running a deficit of -2 at 0 percent research, and the big suprise was Feudalism running a -37 deficit at 0 percent research.
So far from these tests it seems that Fuedalism falls short during times of war, Republic needs large cities, and Monarchy seems to do comparatively well in most situations.
I was stunned by these results, and so I'm bringing this to light here, at Apolyton, where the great minds work together.
Republic vs Monarchy is no surprise - particularly in the MP world, Republic is for peace and Monarchy for war. Feudalism, I had assumed, was the way to go for a government of total war, however, these results suggest that Feudalism is NEVER a good government for war, and only a good government for peace under very ugly map conditions.
And so I ask you: Is there a viable use for Feudalism? Should it be tweaked, and if so- how so? Perhaps lowering the brutal "over maximum support" cost for extra units?
What can be done to make this government viable?
This testing was done by Wtiberon, to give credit where it is due.
Test 1: Ideal, happy-expansion environment:
"I created 20 cities with 8 improvements in each, there were 7 size 12 cities, 4 size 7 cities, 5 size 6 cities, a size 4 city a size 3 city and a size 8 city. I roaded all the land in empire, set 93 units variously throughout the cities, cities production were placed on wealth and 5 luxury resouces were placed inside the empire.
Monarchy was able to research at 50 percent with +5 gold, Republic was able to research at 60 percent with +0 gold, Feudalism was able to research at 30 percent at +3. Fairly close together.
When I added 40 more units (simulating war) Fuedalism was running a -23 deficit at 0 research, Republic ran a + 22 at 40 percent, and monarchy ran a +4. "
Now obviously, this test is for a larger, more expansive environment, and I objected on those grounds. Feudalism is a government of ICS placement and in-your-face fighting, said I, that 5 support at town size is meant to be used, said I.
So, this test was run:
Test 2, the backed-in-corner-and-hating-life scenario:
In this scenario we are backed in a corner next to another civ with nothing but grassland and tundra to call home. Only one river by the capital and not much else.
I planted 17 cities very tightly packed together (one to two spaces) as is the ICS style. All squares within the empire are roaded and 88 units were placed variously throughout the empire. There are 4 size 2 towns, 2 size 3 towns, 8 size 4 towns, and 2 size 6 towns. Each town has 2 improvements for a total of 34 improvements and production was set to wealth.
In monarchy we would be able to research at 50 percent with +1 gold per turn, Republic did horribly only able to research at 10 percent with +2 gold, and the big winner is Fuedalism which researches at 70 percent with a +8 gold.
After adding 40 units to similulate warfare Republic isn't even worth mentioning, Monarchy was running a deficit of -2 at 0 percent research, and the big suprise was Feudalism running a -37 deficit at 0 percent research.
So far from these tests it seems that Fuedalism falls short during times of war, Republic needs large cities, and Monarchy seems to do comparatively well in most situations.
I was stunned by these results, and so I'm bringing this to light here, at Apolyton, where the great minds work together.
Republic vs Monarchy is no surprise - particularly in the MP world, Republic is for peace and Monarchy for war. Feudalism, I had assumed, was the way to go for a government of total war, however, these results suggest that Feudalism is NEVER a good government for war, and only a good government for peace under very ugly map conditions.
And so I ask you: Is there a viable use for Feudalism? Should it be tweaked, and if so- how so? Perhaps lowering the brutal "over maximum support" cost for extra units?
What can be done to make this government viable?
) I ended up with 39 cities of which only around 10-12 were on fresh water and around 1/3 of which were hopelessly corrupt.
Steven
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