looking for your opinion on Fascism

[Ision]

I have noticed a very strong tendency on the part of the AI towards fascism in the Industrial age.

What do you gentlemen believe would be the impact of changeing Fascism from 'forced labour' to 'paid labour'?

Would it be overpowered? underpowered? help or hinder the AI ? benefit the human player too much - not enough?

Any or all opinions are appreciated.

Ision

[Ision]

calling all AU MOD developers............calling all AU MOD developers............

lol

Ision

[David Murray]

I'm unconvinved that fascism is any better than either communism or democracy for war or peace respectively.

Changing to paid labour would make it better because it comes when cities have stock exchanges and railroads. Then, I think it would be the best war government in the game. Otherwise, I see no reason to use it.

[korn469]

post in the wrong thread...opps!

anyways, making fascism have paid labor makes it stronger in my opinion

[ChaotikVisions]

I dunno, Facism looks useful to me, I plan on testing it out in this game i'm playing. It has the highest worker efficency(useful if not playing Industrious, and for railroading everything). It also has the highest unit support, with minor corruption and no war weariness. The main downside is the pop lost, but who can't stand to lose a few pop in the Industrial age. Paid labour would make it too powerful though, I think its fine as it is.

[Orz]

Sending your civilizationjugend to clear the jungles?

Well, I have been hesitating to switch to Fascism so long, because I usually either have a well-developed democracy or rushing towards the dam, or both. Seems interesting, though...

[ChrisiusMaximus]

IMO opinion the game did not require this new feature, I see no point in it whatsoever and I dont think I shall ever bother using it.

I never have any trouble conducting wars under Democracy, even long wars. Of course you do need luxeries and improvements to keep em happy but even so its easy enough to maintain.

Addmittedly this might be different on the highest diff levels but as I play mostly Regent and Monarch that does not affect me

[axxessdenied]

IF you have problems with war weariness, this is the gov't to go with. I believe that switching it to paid labour would make it too powerful of a gov't.
You already get a nice worker efficiency boost, great unit support, and no war weariness, and low corruption. You can't ask for more.

[Hrafn]

Exept maybe a fascist government only unit...I loved those Fanatics with Fundamentalism...we should get a Fascist for Fascism...hehe...

...didn't Call to Power have a Fascist unit...that was cool.

[Inverse Icarus]

i have honestly never used it. whats up with the population drop upon switch?

[Cerbykins]

Thinking about it, might have a use for small states where democracy/communism wouldn't be a lot better than republic/monarchy (save the worker advantage, of course )

But then...how often would folks still have a low-land-area in the industrial age? Might have it's place in scenarios...but most of the time, best to go with the big govs.

[furrykef]

Originally posted by Uber KruX
whats up with the population drop upon switch?

Easy. From a gameplay standpoint, it throws it into balance. It means you won't become a fascist government unless you really, really want it, so its advantages aren't had so readily unless the situation encourages it to begin with. I do think there's a right time to use it, but it's never the only viable option. Kind of like in real life (moral implications aside).

From a historic standpoint, fascist governments, and governments similar to fascism, tend to lead to mass executions and other violence when they get into power...especially since the people might be particularly resistant to switch to fascism of all things, until they're sufficiently brainwashed. Communist China comes to mind (even though the game distinguishes between fascism and Communism, but I think Maoist China was just fascism in disguise). If we consider fundamentalism to be a form or variant of fascism, Iraq comes to mind, too.

- Kef

[Enriquillo]

I just used facism in that C3C game with the dutch that Mountain Sage posted.

It's fairly good I would say, much better in that particular game than democracy because war weariness was a big issue.

What kinda bothered me was that my newly conquered cities do not generate culture for a long time, thus you don't claim a lot of the luxuries just outside your cities.
Ofcourse a few colonies remedies this, but still it's annoying.

Losing pop is a bit of a letdown as well.

Advantage over communism is pretty clear, you're core cities keep producing almost as good as under democracy and you can maintain a huge army for free, I think it was 260 at one point.

Paid labor would greatly benefit facism, it'd be too strong IMO.

[habib_crayen]

hail.
if Fascism makes your workers work at 200% of their capacities, and supplies your army, I think it can only be a "rescue" type of government. I mean that it can help you goin' away from a dark crisis by heavy producing, but on the other hand it won't never bring your money back... I think fascism is only a short transition... (maybe to lead a few battles...)

[furrykef]

Originally posted by habib_crayen
hail.
if Fascism makes your workers work at 200% of their capacities, and supplies your army, I think it can only be a "rescue" type of government. I mean that it can help you goin' away from a dark crisis by heavy producing, but on the other hand it won't never bring your money back... I think fascism is only a short transition... (maybe to lead a few battles...)

You know, I think that's exactly it! Think about it, that's the way it generally happened in real life...for instance, Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany was a semi-direct result of the conclusion of World War I. We made the big mistake of punishing Germany so much that its economy went down the toilet. You needed a wheelbarrow just to carry marks to the grocery store because they were so useless. Some people used their money to keep fires going. Thus the people were disposed to believe the promises of Hitler and the result was a fascist government. You could say that the government was formed to get out of the hole Germany had gotten into, and it seems to be this way in the game: Fascism is a tool for when the going gets really tough and you need to play catch-up in productivity. And, going back to our example, Germany's industrial capacity did get a big boost from what I remember. Good thing it wasn't enough for them to win the war!

- Kef