Are the Vikings too powerful?

[ThaddeusAlexander]

I would be inclined to say that as a whole, the civ is fine. But as a UU, the berserk has become more feared in Conquests. Put 3 in an army with the attack bonus (now attack, what, 9?) and move of 2 rampaging across the land ... pretty scary.

And yeah they don't Iron but honestly, you need iron for defensive units to keep your berserkirs alive so in that respect, I think they need iron ... in a roundabout way.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well ANYTHING in armies is pretty dangerous, especially if used properly. Need I tell everyone about my Ancient Cav Army when the world seems to be almost totally without Iron? One city of three spears defense every 4 turns. Simple as that. Almost never are the 6 MIs I bring with it needed.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Uh... I dunno about you, but I'm not sure I want to risk my army on a caravel or galleon with the possibility of a boat getting sunk. You go right ahead though.

As for a berserk army on land, three words:

Big fat target.

[Arrian]

Ancient Cav army...

4.3.3. against spears. Ouch.

I'm liking my med. inf army I put together last night. 6.3.2. Nasty, especially since it was going up against spears as well. Bad Persians! Bow before Grog!

-Arrian

[chequita guevara]

Fortified pikes in a 7+ sized city are not a match for berserks, especially berserks in boats. The ai neither knows how to use berserks nor how to defend against them.

[Snotty]

Longbows 2 point bombard needs to be taken into account. An essential part of any berzerk defense.

[CerberusIV]

In PTW berserks were easy meat for knights on land. In one game one vet knight of mine took a 14 HP berserk army down to 3HP before retreating. If I had had another knight the army would have died there and then, as it was I killed it, and another one, later with cavalry.

C3C is a bit different as a 3x berserk army has defence 3 not 2 but I would still bet on a couple of knights to eliminate it on level terrain.

Berserks not in armies are relatively easy to kill with horsemen or even archers at a fraction of the price. Yes, you will lose units but you can replace them far faster.

The PTW AI used berserks amphibiously on relatively soft targets but the AI isn't good at hammering home massed attacks with any type of unit, unlike human players, so berserks are no different.

I do play with berserks substituting for MI, not longbows, so they come with feudalism and require iron. It doesn't seem to make much difference to the AI and is a slight boost to the human player although the AI's usually have chivalry anyway by the time I get feudalism.

[Theseus]

Repeat after me: MIXED UNIT ARMIES.

Especially with C3C, for any land-based Berserk attack, I would would a 2xBerserk+Musket Army (8.5.2) in the vanguard.

[Fried-Psitalon]

I don't think anyone's arguing that the Berserk doesn't have uses, Theseus- we're arguing that the unit isn't too strong. Judging by the fact that your very potent army example has another unit mixed in, I'd say that proves the point well.

[Theseus]

Oh.

[Kuciwalker]

If only you could have Berserks and Musketeers... wouldn't that make an 8.6.2 army

[Paddy]

long live strong berserkers............ and bloody minded beer swilling crazy bastards from the scandanavian countries........

[aaglo]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
When PTW came out, it was thought that this would be a killer unit, but it hasn't turned out that way. A very nice unit, feared, but....And truly a unit that is only used properly in the human's hands. I have however seen them used in the middle ages scenario fairly effecitvely by the AI.

Heh...

Well, if you didn't think that berserker wasn't a killer unit, you didn't play enough multi-player.

The proper use of this unit is to attack from the sea - never by land (unless you have some serious stacks of defenders with them). On open ground they are dead meat. And so they are as sole city defenders.

But I must admit, that the amphibious bonus that came with conquests (+25% attack strenght) made them quite strong. I managed to take down an english swordsman army defending London with one veteran berserker (this was the middle-ages scenario).

Fun unit - doesn't need to be changed. You should be afraid of them

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Arrian
6/2/1 versus 4/3/3. Hmm. Gimme the 4/3/3, in almost every situation.

-Arrian

I'd take 6/2/1 in SP any day.

[Theseus]

Me too... stacked with Muskets and Trebuchet.

Vicious.

/me PRAYS that Firaxis / Breakaway are gonna give him a little Army giftie in the patch.