What do the oldtimers think of these aspects?

[Solver]

I'm interested in opinions, especially those who have been playing Civ 3 for a long time, of how well does Conquests go to fix certain problems in the game.

- Naval dominance. From what I heard, navies are made important in C3C - well, this sounds good. Is that true?

- The modern age. One of the biggest problems I saw... in the Modern Age, the spaceship came very early on the tech tree, and if you wanted, you could launch 3-4 turns after getting Synthetic Fibers. Most modern games ended very early in the modern age. Has the tech tree been reworked, or anything?

- Useless units. Marines seem to be good now, but how about Partroopers and Helicopters? Do they have their role in the game?

- Buying techs. Another big issue I think there was in Civ 3, that you had to research techs AI doesn't, and generally just buy techs from it for gold - or the rare tech you have. This approach provided better results at Regent, and at Monarch and above, you absolutely had to use it. Does it now make any sense to do your own research on Regent/Monarch?

- The tedium. Some might argue that there was none, but I believe that at a certain point in the Industrial Age, the game became tedious. The problem was, you pretty much had all the strategic resources, probably, and there was no real reason to fight a war - those were to expensive anyway. So, you just sit there, colonizing nothing, not fighting, and merely moving your workers around.

- Diplomatic agreements. Does your Foreign Advisor still always know whether the other side will accept the deal, making it feel like it's the advisor you're bargaining with, not the AI?

Please respond on the points above... I'll be getting C3C regardless, just because I want to own everything Civ, and I still believe Civ 3 has the most challenging AI (which, I hear, got improved again), but the points above are what make me annoyed by Civ 3 at times.

[Aramis]

Re: What do the oldtimers think of these aspects?

Originally posted by Solver

- The tedium. Some might argue that there was none, but I believe that at a certain point in the Industrial Age, the game became tedious. The problem was, you pretty much had all the strategic resources, probably, and there was no real reason to fight a war - those were to expensive anyway. So, you just sit there, colonizing nothing, not fighting, and merely moving your workers around.

No change there. But I consider tedium now a justifiable reason to go to war, and hang the expense

[Solver]

LOL yes, I have myself numerous times got everyone involved into a world war just because the game was tedious. While it's fun, I don't exactly like it. I'd prefer it if wars were started either by the AI, or by me, because the war starter sees that as a proftable thing to do, not because the game's tedious .

[MrWhereItsAt]

Re: Re: What do the oldtimers think of these aspects?

Originally posted by Rob_S


No change there. But I consider tedium now a justifiable reason to go to war, and hang the expense

Ah yes.... I have said it beofer (with respect to Civ3 vanilla), and I'll say it again here: war saves the late game.

[Solver]

So, MrWhereItsAt, what about my other points ? I remembre you as having quite some interesting posts about the game...

[CerberusIV]

Helicopters are more useful because of TOW infantry. You now have a unit that can be dropped on a key tile in enemy territory and can possibly last more than one turn. So these two units complement each other.

[Solver]

What about tech buying, though? It's what eventually became my biggest complaint with Civ 3.

[Cookie Monster]

Solver:


WRT naval prominance I would say the C3C Ai handles it well. I've had conquests now for about 3 weeks and I am impressed at the number of enemy ships that are patroling my seas.

In my current game (monarch, Hittites) I have a strong army but weak navy. My number one rival (Germans) are the sole survivor on another continent. They absolutely control the seas right now. There is no way for me to get to them with my current navy. BTW I've always built small navies in Civ3/PTW and have been successful. Now however I need to rethink my naval strategies.

[Solver]

In my current game (monarch, Hittites) I have a strong army but weak navy. My number one rival (Germans) are the sole survivor on another continent. They absolutely control the seas right now. There is no way for me to get to them with my current navy.

Definitely sounds like an interesting scenario!

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by Solver

Definitely sounds like an interesting scenario!

Yes it is. Pre modern naval combat is now more intense than it was before now that the ai builds more ships.

Modern time naval combat more closely mirrors RW strategies. You need to create "combined arms" fleets now because airpower can destroy ships/troops. Single ships or 2 unit stacks will surely get sunk now. Mutual protection is now the order of the day.

[vmxa1]

Re: What do the oldtimers think of these aspects?

Originally posted by Solver

"- Naval dominance. From what I heard, navies are made important in C3C - well, this sounds good. Is that true?"

Yes more important, but not important.

"- The modern age. One of the biggest problems I saw... in the Modern Age, the spaceship came very early on the tech tree, and if you wanted, you could launch 3-4 turns after getting Synthetic Fibers. Most modern games ended very early in the modern age. Has the tech tree been reworked, or anything?"

Not really, few minor tweaks.

"- Useless units. Marines seem to be good now, but how about Partroopers and Helicopters? Do they have their role in the game?"

No, only if you want to fool around with them.

"- Buying techs. Another big issue I think there was in Civ 3, that you had to research techs AI doesn't, and generally just buy techs from it for gold - or the rare tech you have. This approach provided better results at Regent, and at Monarch and above, you absolutely had to use it. Does it now make any sense to do your own research on Regent/Monarch?"

Yes, because you have a chance to get an SGL and if you get Philosphy first, you get a free tech.
It is required at Sid as you will not be able to trade for any after the first contact or two.

"- The tedium. Some might argue that there was none, but I believe that at a certain point in the Industrial Age, the game became tedious. The problem was, you pretty much had all the strategic resources, probably, and there was no real reason to fight a war - those were to expensive anyway. So, you just sit there, colonizing nothing, not fighting, and merely moving your workers around."

For those that see it that way, it has not chanced.

"- Diplomatic agreements. Does your Foreign Advisor still always know whether the other side will accept the deal, making it feel like it's the advisor you're bargaining with, not the AI?"

Yup

[Solver]

Thanks... well, if at least it makes sense now to research techs myself, that might already be enough to refresh Civ 3 for me.

[DrSpike]

You've had to research since 1.29f Vanilla when the tech model was tweaked.

[Solver]

Nope, in 1.29f, it was still better to buy from the AI .

[asleepathewheel]

good luck trying to buy anything off the AI in the upper levels if you have nothing to offer them. Sheer cash might be enough, but would take a lot. Its pray for philosophy for me now.