Defensive fire from archery units

[Donegeal]

Flavor? I think it makes it more real. If someone were to charge a castle, the first thing that the castle defendeders would do is shower the incoming armies with arrows. 0-range bombard is an excellent addition.

[Alex]

I don't own C3C yet, but I like this change.

[Inverse Icarus]

it gives you a reason to build archers when you have swordsmen or horsemen. albiet, they don't hit as often as i'd like, but the fact that an archer in a stack gets a free shot is awesome. that 1 HP can really make a huge difference.

[asleepathewheel]

A nifty little change that adds to the game IMO.

(and it reveals to me how many archers I have to take out after the defending spears and swords)

[Dominae]

Originally posted by donegeal
Flavor? I think it makes it more real. If someone were to charge a castle, the first thing that the castle defendeders would do is shower the incoming armies with arrows. 0-range bombard is an excellent addition.

That's right, flavor.

Unless you show me a game in which the Archers' ability actually turns the tide of battle, I stand by my statement that it adds nothing more than "coolness" (i.e. flavor). If you want the defensive first-strike ability to be meaningful in battle, you need to give Archers, Longbowmen, etc. their full Attack value in Bombard strength.

Mind you, I'm glad this is in the game now. It's just that I'm not as excited about it as I could have been.


Dominae

[MrWhereItsAt]

I think I agree with Dom here - it's a small concession to what Archers would have actually done. A neat idea, and interesting, but ultimately I have yet to see it make much of a difference.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Typical single-player junkies. In MP, where all bombarding units fire at the first attacker until it is at one health, you see a stack of 10 archers routinely crushing the first few swords that arrive - a stack of 15 or so Babylonian Bowmen are now *really* frightening as a pillage-and-disrupt force because they're so hard to drive out!

[MrWhereItsAt]

Well that sounds excellent if you live in the part of the world where MP is an easy option.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Mr.WIA- depending on your connection, your location is just fine - one of the main beta testers was from you area and had dial up; couldn't do much more than 4 players, but with DSL people in that area have been playing on the ladder just fine.

[MoonWolf]

I like that they have finally included defensive bombardment (I've already had it in my mod for a long time). It add some realism to the archery units. I still think they miss some abilities though... Like they should get a high defensive bonus if they were attacked on a grassland by non-range-attackers as they're able to let arrows rains down on the attackers from a long distance.

At distance, archers are to be feared, but once you get close they're doomed (unless they're called Legolas or Aragorn )

[Snotty]

(unless they're called Legolas or Aragorn )

Yes, it would be too much to let our archers ignore move penalty for mountains as they snowboard down them on shields

Whats the score with multiple defensive bombards? I thought it was one per attack, but Fried-Psitalon implies otherwise.

[Algernon Pondlife]

I was not a big fan of it in AU mod and I still feel the same. It is not so big a deal that I would complain either. I am not fond of these types of changes in games. I guess it does not matter if you never play PTW or CivIII after getting C3C.

I don't understand. I've been using this for months in PTW. Or am I dreaming? - no I can't be; I've only had C3C since Saturday morning.

It does make a difference in defence and it is on a realistic scale; a charging group only meets a limited number of salvos from archers before engaging, whereas a static group will suffer much more from a well positioned archer offensive. So if it only sometimes has an important effect that is exactly right. Over time and enough engagements it will have proved a certain statistical impact on a campaign.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by Snotty

(unless they're called Legolas or Aragorn )

Yes, it would be too much to let our archers ignore move penalty for mountains as they snowboard down them on shields

Whats the score with multiple defensive bombards? I thought it was one per attack, but Fried-Psitalon implies otherwise.

Bombardment runs on different rules in multiplayer. Example:

5 Swords attack 5 spears backed by 5 catapults.

In single player, this would proceed:

Sword A attacks, Catapult A fires, Spear A defends.
Sword B attacks, Catapult B fires, Spear B defends.

And so on.

In multiplayer, however, all bombarding units fire at once until the defending unit is reduced to minimum health for that bombarding unit. (Phrased that way deliberately, as you'll see below.)

So returning to the example:

Regular Sword A attacks-
Catapults A through E trigger. A fires - a hit! B fires- a hit! C,D,E do nothing. Spear A defends.
Regular Sword B attacks - C fires - a miss! D fires - a miss! E fires - a hit! Spear B defends.

Thus, rather than the "spread it out evenly" method of defensive bombardment in SP, in MP bombardment is heaped on the first attackers. This can lead to a very effective "throw a spear/pike/musket/whatever" in the way first strategy to soak up the defensive fire before continuing.

It IS worth noting though, that a stack of Hwacha's can really make for one heck of a defensive guard. 5 Hwachas fire as you move into the square, and then fire again as you attack- and since these are capable of KILLS, it is possible with Hwacha's to make an attack a "null attack" - one that starts but never finishes.

Luckily for modern multiplayer, the Hwacha's attack value was pulled back from artillery level to cannon level, or these lethal rocket launchers would be fearsome indeed.

Class dismissed.

[Snotty]

Wow, that really is something to think about with our zero range bombard fun. Those Bab bow stacks really are something to be feared. Thanks for clearing that up.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon
Mr.WIA- depending on your connection, your location is just fine - one of the main beta testers was from you area and had dial up; couldn't do much more than 4 players, but with DSL people in that area have been playing on the ladder just fine.

Timezone, F-P. Timezone is the problem.