Navies?

[Kuciwalker]

could finish a wonder or form a Navy

MGL's can't finish wonders anymore

The Navies serian in the sea the equivalent thing to the earth armies.

Except that they would remove all strategy from naval warfare.

[Dis]

If we couldn't stack units, then I would say this was a great idea. Civ2 needed something like this.

I really can't say Navies would be more powerful than armies. Armies can be overpowered because the ai seems to never have them (of course I never let their elite units live )

[vee4473]

Originally posted by skywalker


Except that they would remove all strategy from naval warfare.

I still don't understand this position.

If you cite the lack of terrain tiles with defensive bonuses as the reason that there would be no strategy on the sea if there were navies, then that same lack would mean there is no strategy period. navies or not.

If having an army doesn't negate any inherent strategy on land, then I really don't see how having a navy would negate any pre-exixting level of strategy on the sea.

unless you are admitting that there really never was any startegy on the sea.

[vee4473]

i mean, if you want to say that having 4 batleships in a navy would create some kind of unbeatable "uber" sea unit and therefore navies are a bad idea, then couldn't you make the same argument against land armies.

[Kuciwalker]

I still don't understand this position.

If you cite the lack of terrain tiles with defensive bonuses as the reason that there would be no strategy on the sea if there were navies, then that same lack would mean there is no strategy period. navies or not.

If having an army doesn't negate any inherent strategy on land, then I really don't see how having a navy would negate any pre-exixting level of strategy on the sea.

unless you are admitting that there really never was any startegy on the sea.

The dimensions of naval strategy arise from the fact that forces are more likely to be spread out over a large area, to guard against attacks from multiple directions (ESPECIALLY now with submarines' stealth attack). If you can integrate several units into one, you have in effect brought the battle to a single tile. This doesn't have the same effect with land units, because a) you will ALWAYS have LOTS of supporting units for an army and b) you actually have to hold land, rather than destroy the enemy army.

[vee4473]

i dont agree

combining a bunch of ships into a single unit only brings the battle to a single tile if that group is in the right place. you admitted that there can be alot of space on the ocean, and if they are, then the effect is still the same as a combined army.

unless you think that a specific group of 4 ships will be unbeatable and need no support...


if you think that land battles need more supporting units than naval battles, then I respectfully disagree.

and as far as naval battles being about just destroying the enemy, controlling the sea is just as important as controlling any land area.

and land battles most often degenerate into just battling it out to destroy each other as much as any naval battle ever does.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by vee4473
i dont agree

combining a bunch of ships into a single unit only brings the battle to a single tile if that group is in the right place. you admitted that there can be alot of space on the ocean, and if they are, then the effect is still the same as a combined army.

unless you think that a specific group of 4 ships will be unbeatable and need no support...


if you think that land battles need more supporting units than naval battles, then I respectfully disagree.

and as far as naval battles being about just destroying the enemy, controlling the sea is just as important as controlling any land area.

and land battles most often degenerate into just battling it out to destroy each other as much as any naval battle ever does.

Sorry navy doesn't matter as much as land in Civ 3

[Kuciwalker]

dont agree

combining a bunch of ships into a single unit only brings the battle to a single tile if that group is in the right place. you admitted that there can be alot of space on the ocean, and if they are, then the effect is still the same as a combined army.

Wrong. Partly because there is less space, and partly in spite of it, land battles with or without armies are spread over many tiles. There is a "front". This is also because you can USE land tiles, where you almost never can use sea tiles. Without a front, sea combat already occurs over only a few tiles. With a navy, sea combat will probably only occur in one.

[vee4473]

I'm trying to say that you are incorrect for arguing that a navy would elimnate strategy because it would create some kind of unbeatable unit.

A navy wouldn't be any more unbeatable than an army is, and with the vastness of the ocean, even if it WERE unbeatable, unless it was in the right place at the right time, that power would be useless.

but we aint gonna agree on this i suspect.

I unerstand land is more the focus than sea in the game, but to say that grouped stacks (armies/navies etc.) would be out of line except for land use is just weird to me.

And as far as your assertion that sea battles occur over only a few tiles, i'm sure there are many that would disagree.

It seems to me that navies would be bad for your play style.

[vee4473]

apparently no one else agrees with me either, but this isn't the first time I have had a lone opinion.

[notyoueither]

Speed issues would be a killer for Navies.

Stick 4 DDs into a Navy and go around popping Battleships at will. They could never catch you, let alone kill you.

It is not a good idea.

[Tiberius]

Let's take it the other way round:

what would Navies add to naval combat?

(for air forces, it is even worse: what in hell would you do with an air force army?)

[SpencerH]

Hows about the ability to regenerate lost HP at sea?

For air force hows about precision bombing?

I think that we just need to come up with viable add-on abilities that improve the gameplay rather than simply copy what the army brings to land warfare.

[Uncle Thade]

Navies should be like Armies and have leaders after so many battles, Naval Academy, forthwith. Check my other posts on navies... etc.

[pauli]

(for air forces, it is even worse: what in hell would you do with an air force army?)

well, i've always wanted to firebomb dresden...