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**RobC** · November 11, 2003, 20:18

I have a somewhat related issue -- because of chronic back problems and increasing business travel demands, I ditched my big power laptop for a sub-3-pound dell that doesn't have a CD or DVD drive (the drive is in the docking station). Right now I have no way to get my c3c fix during mind-numbing 6-hour-cross-country flights because there's no way I'm going to lug my docking station everywhere I go!!!

**pauli** · November 11, 2003, 20:44

personally, here's what i would do:

unistall c3c.

rip a fresh clonecd image.

mount said image with daemon tools.

install c3c.

at that point, it *should* work just fine. it's what i did (minus the uninstall part), and i've had no trouble.

btw, you've got an interesting way to share a computer.

**vee4473** · November 11, 2003, 21:11

i was wondering about this for awhile.

i understand that companies want to protect their property, but perhaps there is a way to keep the no cd rule alive without penalizing legal owners of the game.

I mean, maybe game companies can set up a system where legal owners of a game can, at their option, contact the company and receive a "no cd" file (after of course proving to the company that they have legal ownership through a code etc...) so that legal owners have the option to play without the cd.

I think this should be seriously explored, since no matter whether you have a cd drive in your laptop or not, carrying all the cd's for all of your games, kinda negates the purpose of a laptop...

**pauli** · November 12, 2003, 02:45

that's what daemon tools is for

**Asmodean** · November 12, 2003, 02:57

The devil himself has made copy protection the way it is today.

Stardock (developers of Galactic Civilizations) has the right idea. The say themselves that they would never dream of putting copy protection on their CD's, for the exact same reasons that you guys mention here. It penalizes the legal users.

What they do instead, is to offer unparallelled support for their software (Apps and games). This way, pirates have to constantly keep finding new versions (about one per month) of the game, if they want to keep up. It rewards those that have bought the game, and severely penalizes those who steal it. Just like it should be - not the other way around as it is today with copy protection.

Another reason why Stardock shun copy protection, is that they actually think that copy protection creates pirates. Why? Because of people like Videssian. A legal user who has problems with the copy protection. As a thought up example, Videssian could start searching the net for ways to play C3C without the CD. Before long he would find Warez sites, and cracks. He would download the no-cd-crack, and everything would be a-ok. And maybe, just maybe, the next time he ponders buying a game, he suddenly thinks: "Hey it was so easy with C3C, let me just download this next one too". And voilà....a pirated is created.

Disclaimer: I in no way infer that Videssian is actually a software pirate.

Asmodean

**Tiberius** · November 12, 2003, 03:15

Copy protection as it is used today is only a punishment for the legal buyer, nothing less and nothing more.

An "illegal user" will always find a pirated version or a no-CD crack on a warez site or some other way to bypass the CD protection. He will be able then to play the game without the CD, while we will have all kind of problems with spinning CDs and will be punished by denying the access to our CD drive (to listen music, for. ex) as long as we are playing (civ).

**bongo** · November 12, 2003, 04:56

It would be interesting to see any real figures on how copy protected cd's affect sales and profit....

I for one find it bloody annoying to carry my ptw cd back and forth between work and home all the time just so I can play my turn if a PBEM save arrives while I am at work.

One thing that is rarely mentioned here when people discuss workarounds for protected cd's. If you choose to download a hacked .exe file, remember that the hacker may have added a little 'surprise' for you. How about one free trojan for each civ3.exe? Nice isn't it? If you have to play civ with no cd, avoid the hack and try getting a cd-image to work instead.

**Asmodean** · November 12, 2003, 10:58

Originally posted by bongo
It would be interesting to see any real figures on how copy protected cd's affect sales and profit....

The problem with this is that since everybody do it, there is no easy way to get these numbers. There simply isn't base for comparison. If more companies would take up the Stardock way, then perhaps we could start to figure out, how much of a difference it makes.

As it is now, I think that very few software pirates become pirates, only because of copy protection. So there are other factors as well.

Probably it hasn't that much impact on sales. Since the only alternative for the honest person is not to buy the game, there is a limit to how much this can actually hurt sales.

Asmodean

**Videssian** · November 12, 2003, 12:52

I did manage to get it to work, but I'm still not sure how.. I (only) installed daemon tools (I already had a virtual drive set up with another program which is how I knew that just the image wasn't working). Well, it's working now. The actual CD I mean. So I'm confused. I install one other program (daemon tools) but don't do anything more than install it, and now it suddenly works, either with the CD or with an image. So I'm confused.

The "acid test" will be in a couple days, I'm upgrading to a larger HD, so I'm going to be reinstalling windows and my apps (minus some of the crud I've accrued) and if it works there, I'll be happy.. I'll keep you all updated.

Some opinions about the other stuff discussed here:
I don't think that most people who run pirated stuff are affecting sales much, and when it does it'll mostly be the expensive stuff. Most software is too expensive. I won't balk at paying $40 for a *good* game, but I sure would balk at paying that money for a mediocre or highly buggy one. And many "productivity" applications cost MUCH more, and often more than they ought to. And when a company (for example": adobe) acts unethically (the whole Skylarov thing) it makes one much less disposed to buying their products, even if one might feel it's fairly priced. And too, companies will sometimes turn a blind eye to it if they're after market share above all else (Microsoft in asia for the most part), all of this is my opinion of course, but I guess I'm trying to say that piracy and the reasons for it are complicated and it's not as a straightforward issue as it might look at at first glance.

I've always been opposed to copy protection. It causes problems for legitimate users (will Civ3:Con even work in Longhorn a few years from now because of it?) but isn't any real barrier to people who wouldn't buy the software anyway. It treats people likes thieves and by doing so essentially encourages people to become one (with software).

(and don't get me started with the RIAA! *laughs*)

Thanks,
Gregg

**vmxa1** · November 12, 2003, 13:53

Try Alcohol120. I use it on all my games. I mount any game CD in the virtual drive and they work fine. CivIII/PTW/C3C.
The only problem is that some protection scheme require a long copy process and you have to have the entire CD image on your HD. After 20-30 games, that is a lot of space, so get a large drive.

**Asmodean** · November 12, 2003, 17:51

Which is exactly why I don't use virtual drives that much. Those disk images just take up too much HDD space.

But yeah...they are a working solution to a pain-in-the-ass problem.

Asmodean

**vmxa1** · November 12, 2003, 19:45

I just looked at mine and it is at 21GB. That is no sweat if you have a 60 GB or larger drive. Those are common now. It sure is nice to not have to get up and look for a CD if you want to switch to a different game.

**bongo** · November 13, 2003, 04:21

Disk space is cheap. As civ is the only game I play, space is not an issue.

**Asmodean** · November 13, 2003, 13:19

*Asmodean takes a loók at the amount of free space on his 80GB HDD*

Yup...space can become a problem, even for medium sized HDDs

Asmodean

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Civ3:Conquests Copy Protection Issue

Civ3:Conquests Copy Protection Issue

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