Conquests AI changes

[Arrian]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
I just realized that I don't have to pay upkeep for captured artillery. shows up along with the captured workers on the f3 screen



And I'm loving Zeus. Its like having an extra war machine city, really powerful.

Interesting about captured arty. Not sure if that's good.

Zeus is just awesome. Probably too awesome. I think it may need a cost increase (to 300 shields), a reduction in the unit (remove the hp bonus?), or both.

-Arrian

[dexters]

I'd go with both reductions in hp bonus and increase cost.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Arrian


Interesting about captured arty. Not sure if that's good.

yeah I don't know. I wonder what happens when they are upgraded, if they can be. That would limit the exploits a bit I would think. It would be fun to see the manufacturer's stamp during MP, don't you think?

Originally posted by Arrian
Zeus is just awesome. Probably too awesome. I think it may need a cost increase (to 300 shields), a reduction in the unit (remove the hp bonus?), or both.

-Arrian

I agree, its really some wonder, perhaps my favorite of the ancient world now. Now its reload until find ivory

[RobC]

Note that the power of the ToZ is affected by the difficulty level you play on and if you have accelerated production on (higher levels with accel production will likely mean you will have fewer turns before the ToZ becomes obsolete, and therefore produce fewer ancient cav units)

[asleepathewheel]

I just realized that the ancient cavs can't be ugraded that would make it even more powerful.

[notyoueither]

The artillery bit sucks, big time. Can you say massive MP exploit between allies?

Originally posted by Arrian
What civ/settings, NYE? Trying out a new civ, or going with the old standby, Roma?

Check out Alexman's corruption thread, btw.

-Arrian

There is only one, true, civilisation. SPQR

I am playing just about the same as you. Large, normal continents, raging barbs, wet, warm, 4 billion. 12 civs, more aggressive.

The FP-corruption thing could explain some, but I observed the AI improving greatly after getting Democracy. This lends credence to my thinking that unit support cost under Republic could be nackering the AI for a long stretch of the game.

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Arrian

The Indians were cut off from the others (by me) and didn't make contact until about two turns before I wiped them out. They could have made contact easily with a curragh.

-Arrian

I don't think the AI ever builds curraghs. I haven't seen one yet, and it's way too easy to gain control over the tech tree as a Seafaring power on an archipeligo map.

So far (in four games as a Seafaring civ) I've researched Writing-->Philosophy (free tech: Literature)-->Code of Laws at maximum research. By building 1 curragh early (after the 1st or second warrior) and a second once I've got another city down, I've been able to make contact with at least 4, usually 6 or more, other civs by the time I research Writing. I'll be behind in tech at this point, but the AI doesn't prioritize Writing and a bit of careful trading nets me a tech lead and most of the available AI cash. The AI will not make contact with civs off continent until it gets Map Making and builds a galley or two. This gives the human a huge edge in the research race and an ok shot at an early SGL. (First to Writing, Philosophy, Literature and given the AI love for Map Making once it gets Writing you can count on getting Code of Laws first as well. That's 4 rolls for a leader, plus a guarantee of being first to Republic if you keep the beeline going. Even if you don't get a GL, being first to 4 juicy techs combined with a contact advantage is an ironclad guarantee of an Ancient Era tech lead.

This may be curable through editor changes to the AI build preferances (more naval units), and some AU style tweaks to the tech tree to increase the AI value of Writing. I'm not sure if it's possible, but giving all Seafaring Civs a free curragh at the start of the game would give the AI Seafaring civs a bit of an early boost.

[Dominae]

There is a major problem with the AI if it does not build Curraghs.


Dominae

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Dominae
There is a major problem with the AI if it does not build Curraghs.

Then there is a major problem. I've started five games with all the Seafaring Civs included, played each well past the Ancient Era, and never saw another Curragh besides my own (I'm playing the Byzantines, and stangely addicted to them for some reason) despite having explored all the available coast lines.

[Cookie Monster]

Add this problem to the list of possible fixes in a future patch.

[alexman]

Hmmm, why am I not suprised?
Perhaps because the expansionist AI don't build scouts?

Is it still true that seafaring AI civs get a reduced chance of sinking? I don't suppose seafaring AI take advantage of that either, do they?

[Stuie]

Originally posted by alexman
Is it still true that seafaring AI civs get a reduced chance of sinking? I don't suppose seafaring AI take advantage of that either, do they?

Yes to the first one, and not that I have observed to the second. The only AI Civ that ventures off the coast is the one with the GL.

It's too bad that the AI doesn't properly employ Seafaring. It's a very strong trait, up there with Expansionist for my money. The early contact is great for trading techs and keeping up in the tech race early.

[Thoth]

Originally posted by alexman
Hmmm, why am I not suprised?
Perhaps because the expansionist AI don't build scouts?

Is it still true that seafaring AI civs get a reduced chance of sinking? I don't suppose seafaring AI take advantage of that either, do they?

I'm not sure about the AI's getting an extra bonus, but the human player seems to. I've had fairly low sinkage rates with my curraghs in 4 partial games as a seafaring civ. (BTW: Seafaring + Great Lighthouse do stack. Movement 5 galley rock )

Best guess based on limited AI observation during games is that the AI still doesn't gamble on "suicide" runs.

[Dominae]

Originally posted by alexman
Is it still true that seafaring AI civs get a reduced chance of sinking? I don't suppose seafaring AI take advantage of that either, do they?

Part of what makes Seafaring a powerful trait is the "Suicide Curragh" strategy, which the AI does not employ (it does not build Curraghs, and would not send them out to Sea even if it did). Picking a Seafaring civ versus the AI feels to me like cheating.


Dominae

[alva]

Another AI change I've noticed.... when attacking with a superior strength unit, the AI seems much more willing to risk an attack with a damaged attacker. I have seen Cavalry and even Longbowmen that are already down to one hitpoint attacking full strength units with a defense of 1 or 2. They used to run and hide if they had any damage.

Happened pre C3C too. You can often see the AI blows lots of tanks trying to blitz with one HP left.