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  • Note for BETA testers

    by Gobi (Ed Beach, Producer of BreakAway Games for Civ3 Conquests) on CFC

    Here is a quick rule of thumb for beta testers. I'm copying from Jeff Foley's comments today in our online chat sponsored by Apolyton.

    To paraphrase Jeff:

    "Discuss what is IN THE GAME, not what was IN THE BETA TEST."

    Once the game is truly out in the community (probably by the end of the week), features in the game will be out in the arena of common public knowledge and can be discussed freely. They can then no longer be considered Confidential Information in any form. This is the 'discuss what is IN THE GAME' part of things.

    However, if you read the NDA carefully, knowledge of business methods is part of the Confidential Information covered by the NDA. I would rule that knowledge of how the beta test was conducted or what happened in it falls into this category. Since this will never become public knowledge, it is not open to disclosure. This is the '... not what was IN THE BETA TEST' side of things.

    Sulla's site obviously crosses this line. Whether Atari, Firaxis, or BreakAway will act on it is unknown right now. But it will at least jeopardize his inclusion in future tests. Which is a damn shame .... he WAS one of our best contributors, no doubt.
    Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
    Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
    giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

  • #2
    Doh.
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      some people need to be explained everything...
      Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
      Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
      giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

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      • #4
        Spank-ee spank-ee...
        If pigs could fly we'd all have to wear helmets.
        ******************************
        Please don't be envious of my little girlie brain.

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        • #5
          Some people were pretty miffed about changes too.

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          • #6
            Some people are losing perspective that this is a game for us and a business for Atari, Firaxis and Breakaway.
            Haven't been here for ages....

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            • #7
              I guess it's hard to choose between breaking a NDA and glorifying yourself.


              Dominae
              And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

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              • #8
                No it isn't. Someone is just being a boob.
                Founder of The Glory of War, CHAMPIONS OF APOLYTON!!!
                '92 & '96 Perot, '00 & '04 Bush, '08 & '12 Obama, '16 Clinton, '20 Biden, '24 Harris

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                • #9
                  The tone of this thread is starting to remind of the not-so-good(or downright bad) old dayz just following the release of Civ III.
                  "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
                  -- C.S. Lewis

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                  • #10
                    Was he given clear instructions (a specific date) as to when he could begin talking about beta? Seems kind of odd that someone would be complient throughout the whole beta phase only to slip up at the very last moment...

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                    • #11
                      I think one of the beta testers said the NDA specified that they could NEVER talk about the Beta, only the final product. That seems like a reasonable business practice to me.
                      "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                      "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                      "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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                      • #12
                        Can anyone explain to me why this is such a big deal ?
                        ( other then two parties agreeing to something of course which i do understand)

                        Does anyone really care that 5 months ago in Beta 0.2.25 the dutch UU was 1.8.1 and now it's 1.4.1 ?!
                        Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
                        Then why call him God? - Epicurus

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                        • #13
                          I assume it's because the designers' ideas are intellectual property, and that's very important in the gaming industry.

                          If I were to go to some other company and design "Civlization: Beyond Conquests" based on a bunch of ideas that I heard during testing (but that never made it into the game), you bet I would be breaking my NDA. And if I told others about the idea instead and they designed the game, I would still be breaking my NDA but they would be untouchable.


                          Domiane
                          And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by alva
                            Can anyone explain to me why this is such a big deal ?
                            ( other then two parties agreeing to something of course which i do understand)

                            Does anyone really care that 5 months ago in Beta 0.2.25 the dutch UU was 1.8.1 and now it's 1.4.1 ?!
                            I believe the concern is that Sulla alludes to problems, bugs and design flaws(at least as he sees them) that he observed in the beta. Many of these hurdles may, and in fact probably have, been overcome since then.

                            Most people who peruse Sulla's site will be aware of this, and will allow it to affect their decision to purchase Conquests accordingly. Other, less enlightened gamers however, may decide that the beta's problems are not, will not, and cannot be fixed. This may cause them to decide not to purchase the expansion and ultimately cost Atari lost sale's dollars.

                            It's the reader's decision really. Time will tell--avoiding Conquests may even be the right choice. But it's a choice that should probably be based on professional and user reviews, rather than observations made on a beta.
                            "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
                            -- C.S. Lewis

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                            • #15
                              Just in case you are wondering, Sulla's site no longer discusses the Beta Test (the details of his games using the beta versions of the game), and only includes sections regarding the finished product (or at least what he thinks is the finished product).

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