Industrial Graphics Showcase

[Arthedain]

Originally posted by Palaiologos
I don't have FW.

Damnit.

well you can upgrade civ2 classic to civ2 fw with a certain patch that is available at civfanatics

[Jimmywax]

I have MGE and have never had a problem running Riverwar.

[fairline]

I thought the only issue with MGE running FW scenarios was the objective scoring; some of the cities in Riverwar have objective 3 which doesn't work in mge - only single point objectives are scored. I have separate FW and MGE directories and always run Riverwar on FW. I'll try it on MGE.

BTW for those people without graphics programs I can post the updated Riverwar units file, if anyone's interested and if I can contact Allard Hofelt to get his permission.

[fairline]

Originally posted by Boco
Seems you have Featherstone's book. Will you take a shot at the gunboats? I read they were used 16 years later...

Haven't got it Boco - I have several Osprey books ( )on the period which I used for reference, which don't have gunboat pics. Can you post something, or e-mail me?

RW was the scenario that hooked me on design. Lot of creativity went into it.

One of my all-time favourites as well. IMHO one of the best wargfame civ scenario currently available; the rail engineers are a brilliant idea. Trying to get Omdurman and Khartoum is tricky enough, never mind Fashoda. BTW, has anyone ever beaten the French to Fashoda?

How long does it take you to make an icon?

If I'm replaying a scenario and I feel like re-doing the unit gfx I can rattle 'em off pretty quick, but when I'm doing them for other people it seems to take an eternity . BTW, I've nearly finished the armoured cars for EA

[Palaiologos]

The patch at civfanatics upgrades civ2 classic to MGE, not FW.

That "Riverwar" scenario sounds particulary interesting. Pitty i can not play it. And what is so special about the Rail engineers?

I also have Osprey's Omdurman and what i think is that that particular operation was a walk in the park. I mean that the concetrated firepower of the British could ensure victory in any tactical engagment making ammends for any strategical blunders they did.

[Allard HS]

Actually, I am still alive and as a matter of fact, what a coincidence, I was looking into making a new version of River War.
And now suddenly after a while I check Apolyton again, and what do I see? I see a whole load of fantastic and amazing professional units that are actually created for the scen.. Wow... And even some extra's, like Abbysinians, which is a nice idea to put in.

What's more? Oh yes, the labels.txt prevents you from playing it under MGE. Just delete it, and apart from a few little texts that are incorrect it should work fine. Also you could have some problems with some experimenting I did in RiverWar.txt. Remove the file altogether too, or remove the line "columns=2" and "width=640" and it all should work fine under MGE, apart from the scoring system. (I might decide to make some nice spreadsheet for the scoring)

The gunboats? Well, I did quite some research, but this was the best I could find from some pictures and some models.

And how to beat the French? Well, there's a trigger waiting for you just beyond the island before Fashoda. It triggers and creates some French units on the next turn. Then you have one more turn to move before the french units can move (after you). All in all, you should have enough time, if you have 2 ships with units, to destroy the trigger (better make it the first movement of a unit so that he can hurry on afterwards), bombard the city, capture it and fortify it before the French attack. It's all a question of speed really.

The rail engineers was a natural idea that came from the real history. All was dependent of the railway, and the strategic decision of Kitchener to build it from Wadi Halfa directly to Abu Hamed instead of the easier road from Dongola to Wad Hamed is still visible on the maps of the Sudan nowadays, because this rail line is still there. I tried to force the human either of these "desert railways", quite formidable achievements actually, instead of just following the Nile by creating some very hard to cross and very long to rail-through "unstable ground". Also the same at spaces around the cataracts to prevent ugly graphical faults, if you try.

Oh sure it was a walk in the park, especially with the forces that were available. It wás a huge army for that time. But don't forget that some earlier attempts failed and that General Gordon's death caused quite a shock in England.

Last of all, Fairline, I am very grateful for the amazing units you made, but could I be so rude to ask you a little more work? I would really like a Maxim gun and a Camel Corps unit in the same style.

Hmm.. Maybe I should open a new thread on this subject some time, cause I am highjacking this thread.

[Boco]

but when I'm doing them for other people it seems to take an eternity.

Consider your pay halved! Like I said, when you actually have an EA readme in hand, then you can feel guilty.

Actually, I am still alive and as a matter of fact, what a coincidence, I was looking into making a new version of River War.

Hurray!

The gunboats? Well, I did quite some research, but this was the best I could find from some pictures and some models.

It's pretty tough to dig up stuff on these boats. There's a lot of contradictory info on and off the web - the poor Melik gets called a paddlewheeler on some sites an a guideblade twin screw boat on others. Even Featherstone's "Omdurman" has an error on p21, calling two different boats the Fateh.

From this mess, it seems that there were >4 classes of gunboats used by Kitchener:

• Unarmored, lightly armed steamers used for transport - Dal, Kaibar, Akasha (possibly side-wheelers).
• 'Old' Stern-wheeler (from 1885?) - Abu Klea, El Hafir/El Teb, Metemma, Tamai
• 'New' Stern-wheeler (1896?) - Fateh, Nasir, Zafir
• 'Newest' twin-screw (1897?) - Sultan, Sheik, Melik
  http://www.melik.org.uk/gunboats.htm, also this pic:
  

[Palaiologos]

Riverwar.txt and labels.txt defective for MGE?

Indeed they are.

It works properly now Allard, thanks!

[Arthedain]

Originally posted by Palaiologos
The patch at civfanatics upgrades civ2 classic to MGE, not FW.

ehh.. WRONG!!

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2cedric.shtml

scroll down to:
Civ 2 Fantastic Worlds v2.7.8 (2.32 MB)

there you go

btw, RiverWar has never worked with my MGE, just with my FW..

[Dr Kellogg]

Originally posted by Allard HS
Actually, I am still alive and as a matter of fact, what a coincidence, I was looking into making a new version of River War.

Yeah!

[fairline]

Allard: good to see your still active The prospect of an new version of Riverwar is a mouthwatering one, and I'm pleased you think the units are of use. I'd be happy to have a go at the Maxim and Camel Corps.

Boco, I'll add the gunboat to the list for EA; the pic is perfect reference material for isometric units. I'm trying to get the ACs and the guns done first - is this right?

Palaiologos: I think your half right about in being a walk in the park. Omdurman was little short of a massacre of the Mahdists, if you leave out the typically (for British cavalry) ridiculous charge of the 21st Lancers. However, the equally bloody defeat by the earlier Mahdist forces of Gordon's subordinate Muhammed-Pasha's army, and the near disaster-turned victory at Tamai in the 1880s showed the Mahdists were a force to be reckoned with. There were plenty of occasions when French, Italian or British were defeated by Africans, despite the superiority of the European's weapons.

[Jimmywax]

Originally posted by fairline

There were plenty of occasions when French, Italian or British were defeated by Africans, despite the superiority of the European's weapons.

You can usually chalk those up to the Europeans simply underestimating their enemy and charging in thinking that just because they were white, christian, and suposedly civilized; they could surely beat any defense those bloody savages could offer. I can only think of a couple examples that prove otherwise and they all involve the French foreign legion. That's just what I believe though.

[Boco]

I'll add the gunboat to the list for EA; the pic is perfect reference material for isometric units. I'm trying to get the ACs and the guns done first - is this right?

Any order that fits your schedule and preference will work. Many thanks!

[fairline]

Originally posted by Jimmywax
You can usually chalk those up to the Europeans simply underestimating their enemy and charging in thinking that just because they were white, christian, and suposedly civilized; they could surely beat any defense those bloody savages could offer. I can only think of a couple examples that prove otherwise and they all involve the French foreign legion. That's just what I believe though.

Absolutely. The classic case of the two extremes of European versus African warfare occured within a single day or so in the Zulu-British War. The British thought that the Zulus were savages who would easily be defeated , and a mixture of complacency, bad tactics, confusion over who was in command and technical problems with their rifles played into the hands of the Zulu Impi. The Zulus were in fact contenders for the best trained army in the world at the time, and what they lacked in effective modern weapons they made up for with high discipline, good tactics, bravery and morale. Something like 1300 from 1700 of the British troops at Isandhlwana were killed in the resulting defeat. The next day, a force of 140 or so well-led British troops in a well-prepared defensive position at Rorke's Drift held off a force of 4000 Zulus from the main Impi, accounting for 500 of them despite the bravery and superior numbers of the Africans.

When the European forces were well-led and made the most of the superiority of their weapons, they usually inflicted heavy losses on African armies; but like Custer and the Sioux if they were complacent and underestimated their enemy it often led to a bloody defeat.

[Palaiologos]

Actually i don't remember any battle that the french lost against the african savages.It seems the frenchies had at last found an oponent they could win.

Italians on the other hand had a hard time defeating the spear armed Ethiopeans with aeroplanes and machine guns in 1936. Not to mention that defeat of theirs in 1896 at the hands of the Abysinians. It was the greatest defeat suffered by Europeans in africa.
Don't remember where it happened though.