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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
For what it's worth, Babylon just founded 32 cities last turn, thereby gobbling up all the remaining city slots. To call that an "exploit" is putting it mildly, considering they started the turn with 63.
Congratulations Slo, you won the game. Cya.
To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton
From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise
If this game is going to continue, it will have to be rolled back to Slo's last turn, and he will need to "un-found" all those cities. The very fact that he would pull a stunt like that has me right on the verge of walking away from this game anyway - and if he refuses to do this, then that means one of us is definitely leaving.
So it appears we have to make a decision on who gets the remaining 35 city slots. My vote is that since Babylon already has 63 (25% of the total), and because they pulled such a slimy trick, that forfeits their right to any more. So the remainder should be divvied up between Minos, Greece, Hatte, Egypt, and Persia. I'm open to a discussion on how that might work.
We also need to consider the issue of unit slots, since those are fixed at about 2000 (like cities are at 255), and that will undoubtedly be Babylon's next slimy move unless we agree on how those should be allocated.
Let me emphasize that if in the course of "normal" game play we had somehow bumped up against the city limit, that would have sucked, but it would have been understandable. But when a player already well noted for extreme micromanagement suddenly founds a huge number of new cities in one turn, and that total just so "happens" to put us at the game limit, then it's completely obvious that he did so purely as an exploit. and THAT is why this completely pisses me off!
To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton
From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise
Originally posted by Kull
I loaded up the download, and noticed a Babylonian unit moving as my turn started. Might want to check for a missing Ctrl-N before I start playing.
Sorry, I banked on e-mail notifications, but they didn't work.
(My original account is restored, but the notifications didn't work)
32 cities within one turn is an "exploit", so what would be "legal" for you? 20? 10? 3?
To be reminded:
What is an "exploit" is a very subjective point. This is why we have clear and unambiguous rules.
The "exploits" banned in this game are clearly listed, and we have no rule about a speed or timing of city building.
Besides: we introduced many new rules, but never retrospectively!
Less important notes:
In past I thought about a possibility to discuss a patch that would augment the city limit. But I concluded the 255 limit was OK, as more cities would cause the game too much laborious.
A note: IMO the game doesn't become boring after reaching the limit: it only makes war more likely, as more city slots may be required for further growth.
Originally posted by Kull
If this game is going to continue, it will have to be rolled back to Slo's last turn, and he will need to "un-found" all those cities. The very fact that he would pull a stunt like that has me right on the verge of walking away from this game anyway - and if he refuses to do this, then that means one of us is definitely leaving.
So it appears we have to make a decision on who gets the remaining 35 city slots. My vote is that since Babylon already has 63 (25% of the total), and because they pulled such a slimy trick, that forfeits their right to any more. So the remainder should be divvied up between Minos, Greece, Hatte, Egypt, and Persia. ...
I may be mistaken, but from my perspective this doesn't sound like a very virtuous way of thinking: it seems the game doesn't go as you expected, and your reaction is a try to change the rules : you propose to deprive other civs from their trade opportunities (by passing Minoans to an AI), or you want to confiscate cities that other civs worked hardly for. If not possible, you escape the game.
(In one moment I expected Babylon would be reduced to Ur only, losing the remainder against Assyrians. I didn't plan to escape, but to help my allies and to harm Assyria even with one single city.)
Originally posted by SlowThinker 32 cities within one turn is an "exploit", so what would be "legal" for you? 20? 10? 3?
**** you. You can leave any time. Biggest mistake we ever made was letting you into this PBEM.
To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton
From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise
Or to say it another way... I rather thought that a major part of this game was the role-play aspect, and founding 32 cities in one turn doesn't strike me as a very Babylonian thing. It is certainly not the way I interpreted statements about your city founding not slowing down.
Originally posted by Straybow
It is certainly not the way I interpreted statements about your city founding not slowing down.
I guess it might be Immortal's intention not to fully reveal the Babylonian plans. I think it was natural that he wanted to warn his friends but simultaneously to keep most city licenses in Babylon. (You can hardly expect other behaviour in an environment of an economical competition.)
SlowThinker the Player
Babylon worked hard many cycles in order to reach the final achievement and it is unbelievable for us that the Egyptian God may think the history will be returned back...
Babylon warned clearly his friendly civilizations and suggested that they don't hesitate with their own city building. We hope our friends will develop their homelands to even more glory but ... a Babylonian powerfull opposition, The Trade Fashion (led by merchant Bishtra) asks Babylon develops to the most glorious civilization in the world, and our people is swayed by their nationalist propaganda.
The Immortal
Last edited by SlowThinker; November 6, 2007, 09:27.
Originally posted by Straybow
Or to say it another way... I rather thought that a major part of this game was the role-play aspect, and founding 32 cities in one turn doesn't strike me as a very Babylonian thing.
So why didn't you wonder why Pyramids are in Nineveh or didn't complain after Egypt captured/built cities at Euphrat?
Anyway it was impossible to include the 'role-play aspect' into our rules IMO. In order to avoid disputes rules must be clear and unambiguous.
Let me be unambiguous. Roll back all 32 cities or leave.
Slowthinker, you are on very thin ice here. Every major player who has departed from this game has cited your presence as a significant contributor in their decision. Your absence will NOT be missed, and in fact it should prove much easier to recruit new players after you are gone.
Feel free to claim victory on your way out the door. The rest of us are just looking to see the continuation of what had been a relatively competitive game.
To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton
From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise
It sounds like you were speaking for all other players? They sure asked you to tell me the painful truth?
I guess they are rather speculating what will happen after Egypt attacks their cities and fails for example. Will you complain there was too many defenders inside? The game shall be reloaded and defenders shall be disbanded? Who doesn't comply shall leave?
Originally posted by Kull
Every major player who has departed from this game has cited your presence as a significant contributor in their decision.
Who are these players and where are those citations?
Please ask the Peasteress to perform a Ctrl-N on Babylon (using the hittites_b2330.net save file) and post it. It's time to return this PBEM to a game that might actually be fun for most of the players.
Slowthinker: You perverted the game. It was pointed out and you were given a chance to reverse your actions. Instead you responded with insults and the usual delay tactics. Those days are over. You are done.
To La Fayette, as fine a gentleman as ever trod the Halls of Apolyton
From what I understand of that Civ game of yours, it's all about launching one's own spaceship before the others do. So this is no big news after all: my father just beat you all to the stars once more. - Philippe Baise
Kull, you are not a boss here, there are 4 other players with you. I played my turn in concord with our rules, and it is you who is delaying the game now.
Straybow, I think you missed a PBEM game is a sort of MP game. This is not a cooperative SP game, but a competitive game.
A "fun" of SP is that the AI will never thwart your plans and will never surprise you and you have assured you will win.
A fun of MP are surprises, both success and failure, uncertainity if your plans will be successfull.
Complaints of type "you built too many cities" or "your defenses were too tough", "you attacked with too strong forces" have no place in a MP game IMO.
We could have agreed on something like this before (but it wouldn't have been a real MP game and I wouldn't participate then), but we didn't do it and nobody indicated he would want it.
You didn't indicate you would ask such principle when you rolled over Assyria (I guess it was "un-fun" for the Assyrian leaders), and it sounds a bit dishonorable if you ask it now, when there is a possibility Hatta might be rolled-over economically.
(Maybe by "un-fun" you mean something else, in that case explain please.)
Last edited by SlowThinker; November 8, 2007, 08:41.
32 cities within one turn is an "exploit", so what would be "legal" for you? 20? 10? 3?
: you propose to deprive other civs from their trade opportunities (by passing Minoans to an AI), or you want to confiscate cities that other civs worked hardly for. If not possible, you escape the game.
I guess it might be Immortal's intention not to fully reveal the Babylonian plans. I think it was natural that he wanted to warn his friends but simultaneously to keep most city licenses in Babylon. (You can hardly expect other behaviour in an environment of an economical competition.)
Who are these players and where are those citations?
We didn't disturb when you was breaking up the Seeds #2 game, so you should keep back now.
.
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