Aeterna Civitas III

[alchemist_7387]

Aeterna Civitas III for MGE? Why not?

[QUOTE=alchemist_7387;5689353]Hello, McMonkey! I've modified your Aeterna Civitas II for a "2.1 version". Please take a look! Only the things I've modified are in the .rar file, ok? I'm sad to know that Aeterna Civitas III won't be for Civ2 MGE... In my opinion, it's better than ToT > Thanks!

[McMonkey]

Hi alchemist

Thanks for taking the time to mod this scenario. Both versions of Aeterna Civitas (I and II) were designed specifically for multiplayer (PBEM) games and were never intended for serious single player use. I am a huge fan of MGE but ToT has some major advantages for designers and players for single player games. The most important advantage of ToT is its much larger and more flexible events. Without the much larger events file I don't think I could improve the game enough to make it a real challenge for players.

I intended to do some work on ACIII today so I will take a look at your mod and see what I can plunder

[alchemist_7387]

Aeterna Civitas III for MGE and A Soaring Spirit

Hi, Mc Monkey!

I agree with u about ToT... It's much more flexible and has a lot of potential to create interesting scenarios. What I don't like in ToT is the game style, do u understand? Well... maybe 'cause I'm used to play Civ2 for several years before ToT

If u agree, I'm trying to build an "Aeterna Civitas III" for MGE, probably including Parthians instead of Germans... I didn't decided it yet. Is "A Soaring Spirit" your scenario? When the official version will be released? I'm moddin' it too, 'cause I've found some little problems...

1) Which are those "resource" terrains? They are ugly and don't seem to represent exactly a special type of real terrain.

2) The game now starts at 750 BC, what give to the player(s) a lot of time until the first persian invasion. I guess the greek civs should have only 50 or 60 years of time before the first persian invasion... I've played with the Spartans and conquered all Greece and Macedonia even before the persians could think about an attack...

3) Shouldn't the "lydians" be "persians' instead? This means they'll be strong right in the beginning of the game, eliminating the use of the "eastern fortress"...

Well... this is it for now! I hope we can work together on both Aeterna Civitas III and A Soaring Spirit (if u like, of course... 'cause I know nothing about drawing units and such things... consider me just a tester and an advisor, ok?). Thanks a lot, Mc Monkey!

[McMonkey]

What I don't like in ToT is the game style, do u understand? Well... maybe 'cause I'm used to play Civ2 for several years before ToT

I understand what you mean. There are a few things about MGE that I still prefer to ToT, mostly little details like how the units slide much slower in ToT and the general feel and sound of it. This is more than balanced out by ToT's many improvements. I have never found these things to be a big problem when playing other peoples scenarios. I'm usually too absorbed in the action to notice!

If u agree, I'm trying to build an "Aeterna Civitas III" for MGE, probably including Parthians instead of Germans... I didn't decided it yet. Is "A Soaring Spirit" your scenario? When the official version will be released? I'm moddin' it too, 'cause I've found some little problems...

Feel free to make any changes to ACII as you like but please give it a completely new name to avoid confusion (like Paul Mutica did with Wars of the Mediterranean which was a mod of Berndt Brossing's Imperium Romanum). Nichael has already made a mod called AC Freeplay and you have made a 2.1 mod.

Putting the Parthians in instead of the Germans is an interesting idea, I will be interested to see how that goes. If there were 8 Civ slots available I would have included Parthia (as well as a few other nations), especially if I could have extended the map eastwards a bit more!

A Soaring Spirit was designed specifically for multiplayer games with six human players and is being tested now at Civ Webring. I think the map is too big for the AI to colonize effectively in single player games. I do plan to attempt a ToT version where I can assist the AI with events, but it will be a while before I get round to doing this. Again, feel free to make any changes you wish, just release it under a new name and mention me in the credits

1) Which are those "resource" terrains? They are ugly and don't seem to represent exactly a special type of real terrain.

I quite like the special resource squares but I can see that they don't look like all the other ones on the map. I used them to define which cities were great trade, production or population centers. Once the playtest of 'A Soaring Spirit' is finished and I am making alterations I will find some more aesthetically pleasing graphics.

2) The game now starts at 750 BC, what give to the player(s) a lot of time until the first persian invasion. I guess the greek civs should have only 50 or 60 years of time before the first persian invasion... I've played with the Spartans and conquered all Greece and Macedonia even before the persians could think about an attack...

In a single player version you could speed things up by making each turn 2 or more years!?

3) Shouldn't the "lydians" be "persians' instead? This means they'll be strong right in the beginning of the game, eliminating the use of the "eastern fortress"...

I was trying to be historically accurate. The Persians dd not come into Asia Minor until later in the game so to have them represented from the start is anachronistic. However to still be calling the nation that becomes the Persian Empire 'the Lydians' is also wrong, so I'm damned either way

Well... this is it for now! I hope we can work together on both Aeterna Civitas III and A Soaring Spirit (if u like, of course... 'cause I know nothing about drawing units and such things... consider me just a tester and an advisor, ok?). Thanks a lot, Mc Monkey!

I will be interested in what changes you make and how they work out. Let me know what help you need and I will see what I can do

[McMonkey]

AGRICOLA

Sorry for the delay in getting the test version to you. I have done very little work done on this project over the past week, partly due to computer troubles, but mostly due to other distractions and bouts of severe lethargy

I will redouble my efforts and get the events finished this week. I'm hoping to make a bit progress on this project over the next two weeks as I have a bit of annual leave to waste I hope the offer of help still stands.

[AGRICOLA]

Take your time, I'll be available when you're ready.

[McMonkey]

AGRI

Just e-mailed you the files in two zipped folders. Hope they reach you OK. I managed to slog my way through the main events (bar the Civil Wars and Rebellions) and I still have 40168 bytes remaining heap space which is excellent! (what is the total space for ToT again?).

Still got a lot of work to do to perfect the scenario, but whats there should be playable. Its not a rough copy by any means, just untried. I think the foundations are solid so now it should be a case of building, adding events, testing and tweaking.

Cheers!

Some screenies to show progress:

Nile Delta


Rhine


Iberia

[McMonkey]

And a few more:

Tigris and Euphrates


Roma


Macedonia

[AGRICOLA]

Received and downloaded the zips. Added ';' to @DEBUG. Everything looks fine after my usual minor fixes to improve the clarity of some graphics.

A small note of caution is in order. We are just more than two weeks from bugging out for Florida so I can't promise to devote the usual time to testing. The miserable task of closing down a house to survive 6 months in a deep freeze (expect at least a couple nights of -40) and packing up take a up lot of time. Will do my best.

[McMonkey]

Thanks AGRI. I will appreciate whatever you can manage. As I said, this is not the proper Alpha test yet. I just wanted someone else to see what I was up to and give me come constructive criticism before I charge off down any dead end roads. It will also be useful to have someone who has seen the scenario to bounce ideas off.

One thing I don't think I mentioned is that you will need to run it with Civ2Unlimited. I don't know if you are familiar with this utility yet but it is essential as it allows up to 32,000 units. All you need to do is put it into the ToT folder where the civ2.exe is and double click Civ2Unlimited.exe to launch the game. In the global options check: Max Units, Max Gold, Max Population. This won't overwrite any of your files.

My next task is to make events for the Civil Wars and Rebellions. I have decided to trigger them at historically accurate dates so that most of them occur after the Republic era. Although the dates will be set the spawning locations will be random so each game will be different. Each Rebellion will have a number of separate events spawning a large number of Rebel Legions (perhaps 10+ in each location). This way the player may have to cut short his campaign on a distant border to rush home and deal with the rebels.

The Rebel Legion unit itself will now be a conventional land unit with a very good attack value (+ Ignore Walls) and good defense. This way they should be able to take one or two cities near their spawning location and also hold out against improvised relief armies. At the moment I will make them Barbarians, but ideally I would have used an AI nation (if only there were more slots). I will have to test how effective these rebellions will be, but with the unit count it should be easy enough to tweak!

The Rebel Legion:

[AGRICOLA]

[QUOTE=McMonkey;5687140]I have been busy making events and revising the unit stats again to favor the attacker, both AI and human. Holding onto cities seems like a challenge, especially when the events kick in!
[QUOTE]

IMHO, you have gone much too far to favor attackers. There is no Roman unit in a city that can withstand an attack by any of the many (even cavalry???) AI units that can ignore city walls. Even a lowly archer has a ~25% chance of killing the best Roman unit, a General, behind city walls and on terrain with a 100% D bonus. A Celtic Warband has ~70% chance of killing the General. These AI units are at least ~68% and ~92% against any other Roman city defenders on +100% D terrain. In a nutshell, there is no way that Roman troops in a city or in the open can hope to withstand AI attacks. Their only hope is to strike the first blow.

I've managed to survive until turn 30 only by sacrificing units to set up 'killing zones' outside Roman-held cities.

I'll e-mail you a full report in a couple of days.


Percentages courtesy of kobi's Battle Odds spreadsheet.

[McMonkey]

Great. Better to begin too hard than too easy. Tweaking the stats down a little should be easy enough. I wanted the early part of the game (IE Pyrrhic Invasion and Punic Wars) to be a real struggle for survival. Feel free to alter the stats as you see fit. Look forward to seeing your report

[Rand al'Thor]

Wow, just wow. I wish you all the best for making AC into a single player scenario. This is something i've been waiting for since i regrettably don't know any PBEM players and don't have much time for Multiplayer Onlinegaming in general, too. But i played your scenario nonethless. Well wasn't much of a challenge for the only human player but there are so much wonderful details given into it, i think it's the best roman scenario to date. I hold my fingers crossed for your success!

[McMonkey]

Thanks for the encouragement Rand. I have been extremely lazy / distracted over the past week or so, but I received AGRICOLA's playtest report and now have a good idea what needs fixing and will now get back on the case. If you enjoyed the details from the multiplayer version I am hoping you will really enjoy the single player game when completed.

Reading Agri's report made me think about the Roman Republican army and how I can represent the progression from Hastati (Recruit) to Principe (Veteran) to Triarii (Old Guard). Just making all three buildable will probably result in only one or two types being built. I am toying with the idea of borrowing Heresson's training camp idea from Komnenai (using the Legion standard) so that when a Hastati unit (only one of three buildable from the start) kills or is killed by the Standard they become a non vet Principe. If this Principe then gains veteran status they can then be upgraded to Triarii. This will involve some tweaking of the unit stats and some careful consideration regarding the events to make it workable, but it is worth looking into I think.

[AGRICOLA]

One thing I don't think I mentioned is that you will need to run it with Civ2Unlimited. I don't know if you are familiar with this utility yet but it is essential as it allows up to 32,000 units. All you need to do is put it into the ToT folder where the civ2.exe is and double click Civ2Unlimited.exe to launch the game. In the global options check: Max Units, Max Gold, Max Population. This won't overwrite any of your files.

I failed to locate this utility in either SL or CFC downloads. Where can one find it?

It has worked perfectly so far. A small curiosity is that one cannot cheat money to exceed 30k.