When Civ II Source Code Is Released... What Are Your Plans?

[DarkCloud]

- In order to better make an argument for the release of the civ II source code, it might be helpful if people could identify their plans for using the source code.
- When 2K Games releases the Civ II source code, what sort of coding do you intend to do (and what is your coding background) and why do you think it could :

1.) Improve the Game.
2.) Improve Sales for 2K games in the future (They're running a company here and need to point to potential profits. How do you propose to add value to 2K games?)

McMonkey, who intends to spearhead this project had this to say

For now I just need someone who can give me the basic technical advice that I lack. The worst situation would be that someone at 2K agrees in principle to release the code and asks me the practicalities of what we will do with it and where to make it available, because I have no idea and I will look like a fool! It would be good to have someone on hand to consult on technical issues/jargon so that our correspondence will be taken seriously.

Some of the things I am a bit sketchy on are:

What format does the code come in?
Where would it get released to?
Do 2K games put it on their website or do we need a host site?

Anybody know such stuff?

More Info in this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...69#post5512169

I'm fairly certain Apolyton would host the source code if allowed, and if not poly, then CivFanatics.

~DC
Master of the List for Civ IV.

[McMonkey]

Thanks Dark Cloud

As I said in the other thread, its a bit of a conundrum whether to find programmers for a project that may never happen or to make sure we get the code and then find out there is nobody with the nous to make use of it.

I think what really need now is a couple of people who know how to make the changes in theory and can assist me in my correspondence. They do not necessarily need to be volunteers to actually do the work if the code is released. I am convinced that if we did get the code we could easily drum up enough interest to get things done, after all how many copies of CivII were sold? Lots, that's how many

I will be looking through the various threads to gather convincing argument as to why 2K would stand to gain as well as the die-hard fans. Hopefully I will be able to get a copy of the original letter which with any luck is lurking somewhere on Harry Tuttle's hard drive!

[Eivind IV]

If you want the letter you should wait for me to have a look around, it's been changed a lot since the original version.

[McMonkey]

Which could be some time away? It would certainly be better to get the letter you had, but if needs be I could write a new one. Do you remember the key points? I have a few ideas of my own but I guess you spent some refining everything.

[Eivind IV]

I found somehing in my email archive. I forwarded it to you. Knock yourself out!

[duke o' york]

Unfortunately I have no coding skills whatsoever, but would love to see what is possible with the source code.

If it is released then I'll buy Civ IV - that ought to boost 2K's profits.
Heck, if they give me a PS3, I'll buy Bioshock too.

[duke o' york]

In fact, speaking of profitability, why don't they make the code available for purchase by download? Would it be possible to tweak it somehow so that without having bought and downloaded the code, then it wouldn't be possible to run scenarios or patches released for the altered version of Civ 2?

This is the ideal model for profits, because they already have the code, and the costs to set up a page on their extant website for downloads would be minimal, so they're be making money for very little outlay, given that they already have patches for other games available on their site and so won't have to pay extra to maintain the servers.
However, I'd imagine that the majority of the downloads would happen in the first month or two, so they wouldn't need to keep the page up for that long (a year, max, I'd say), and would still gain the goodwill of the entire Civ 2 community.

[defrancoj]

To me, the best thing that we could do with the source code is figure out how to play with more than seven civs. With modern computers and gigamaps I would love to have a game with up to 32 civs and though I'm not a programmer I don't see why this would be infeasible. Having so many civs would ensure real borders between them and make the early game more exciting.

[DarkCloud]

That's an interesting idea duke- basically sell the source code to the community. They could set the price... say 10,000 USD, and then if the community really wants the code bad enough, they can pay.

[duke o' york]

Well I was hoping for a cheaper price than that, but think that buying it from them is definitely the way ahead - whether individually, as I was thinking, or collectively as you suggested.

[ColdWizard]

Improving the game: I'd like to see city improvements be un-hard-coded so that they could be modified and added through rules.txt. I have no idea if this would be practical to do (I can't code my way across a chessboard) but I have always wanted to be change the effects of some of the buildings.

As for 2k Games, they would get the goodwill of gamers. Good PR is always good for the bottom line; can you say Brand Loyalty? As the actions of certain companies (EA, Infogrames) make me less inclined to buy their games (or boycott them outright), positive actions would lead me to be more inclined in buying their games or at least being more aware of their games (Stardock). As my gaming budget is even smaller than usual, EA and Infogrames won't get a dime no matter what, but Stardock might. For me, Civ2 code release, particularly free release, would certainly buy 2K Games quite a bit of my loyalty. Pay to release would taste a lot like chiseling the consumer, in my mind (which is why I dislike EA and Infogrames, uncoincidentally).

[McMonkey]

Its been a busy week in RL but getting the petition and letter from Eivind was a real boost. I will take a good look at the arguments laid out and create an updated version of the letter over the next few days that may include some of these suggestions. I still need to get myself organized so that I can keep track of all the ideas, past and present. Keep the ideas coming and if anyone wants to be added to the petition then PM me your e-mail address

[McMonkey]

I have been reading through the letter today and I have decided to re-write it and make some changes. Some of the arguments were nonsensical, such as CivII not functioning with XP (it does!) and there not being many people interested in it anymore. I thought the whole point of the petition was to show that there IS still interest in the community else why bother!

I think the priority is to find someone at 2K games who is willing to enter a dialogue with us, find out where the code is and whether they would agree in principle to a release as the owners of Quake, Doom, Sim City, Monkey Island and Call to Power did.

I will use the petition as evidence of the interest in the game. I will use Brian Reynolds endorsement to add credibility and I will try and get a promise of a host site from Apolyton and Civ Fanatics.

I think we need to stress that this is intended to be open source and try to also find a host like Source Forge where we can attract programmers to assist us and lots of people can get involved (a computer savvy friend at work suggested this, I will need to look into it a little more).

We need to consider what license it should be released under. A GNU Lesser General Public License has been suggested as a good option and I will look into this in more detail.

I will try and get in contact with some of the other online groups that got the source codes released and see if they have any tips.

Basically I have a few ideas to follow up before I attempt to contact 2K

[duke o' york]

Good thinking - we need to turn up with a howitzer, and not a warrior.

[McMonkey]

Well put!

I still think 2K have nothing to lose by releasing the code, after all it is just gathering dust. The trick will be to get through to the relevant person and convince them that it is worth their time and effort to go through the legal and admin side of things. If we can have something already in place they could make use of then it cuts down on the work involved and hopefully makes it a more palatable proposition!

My work colleague thinks that Lucas Art recently released the code for Monkey Island which is intriguing. If anyone has any info on other source code releases then please let me know. It would be good to speak to someone who has succeeded and get some pointers!