Is ToT worth it?

[kcbob]

I've had the straight Civ2 MGE version for about a year now. I can now win on Deity level and I can now win a game of OCC. I still am greatly challenged by the game, though. I only win about 30% of the time.

My question is, as this winning percentage rises (and I would hope it does), should I consider buying ToT? Does it add to the enjoyment that much? Is it so different that I will have another learning curve ahead of me?

Bottom line... is there anyone who has it and isn't happy with it?

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Frodo lives!

Better dead than "Red"... or green... or blue... or yellow... or orange... or purple... or white.

[Wilson Theodoro]

ToT has a huge advantage over other versions of civ because of it´s greatly improved AI and complex scenario possibilities ( if it only had editors ... ). Although I was terribly frustrated with some aspects of the game, well, it´s a member of the civ family, and worth buying and playing.

[Kestrel]

Is ToT worth it ?

There are a number of people who have complained about certain facets of it, but most of the complaints can be fixed (or at the very least, ameliorated) via one means or another.

You start with a greater subtlety of graphics due to the higher resolution format and then there are modpacks to improve those graphics & to improve the background screens. There are extra scenarios and also (if you wish) the challenge of playing with 4 maps or 4 worlds (or one world sliced 4 ways).

There is also a utility which allows conversion of earlier format scenatios to ToT format.

It IS true that you cannot yet create new unit & resource animations, but with the patch v1.1 you can switch off those animations and still create myriad static icons to your hearts content (or use the vast library that now exists).

For me Civ 2 is a game of strategy and it wouldn't really matter if the icons were tags with letters and numbers rather than images (aka the "Battle of Britain" control centre), for it is what they represent (and what their interactions mean) that matters.
(Most chess players don't complain because the king on a chess-board doesn't look like a real king.)

If you like to create alternatives, with ToT you still get the ability to customise the game further than was possible with previous incarnations (invisible until attack, non-bribable, impassable terrain, better sounds setup, more events, better tribe differentiation, and much more) all of which can add to the complexity of the play and to a more complex modelling of reality.

I am also told that the AI is a little smarter (and thus a little harder to beat).

Bottom line - IMHO For US$20 - Yes, it's worth it.

What else were you going to spend the $20 on anyway ? :-)

[Civmew2]

It's worth it. And if/when you get it, try the Fantasy game. With seven different races that have specific units assigned to them, it's really hard. Goblins got powerful attack units and are aggresive, Stygian units are almost always unbribable, Elves have skyhigh defense, you get the idea.
In other words, this game is well worth the price. AI's a bit tougher, graphics are better, there's the Sci-fi and Fantasy games, an extended game...and whole bunch more. It's worth more than the price.
[This message has been edited by Civmew2 (edited August 10, 2000).]

[a_bates]

Hmm, I feel someone needs to throw in the negative point of view here.

As for what is possible, Yes the scenario possibilities are more versatile under TOT but as yet there are only a tiny handful of scenarios for TOT any way. Whats the use of possibilities if they are not implemented.

So lets get down to what you actually do get:

3 games in one. Ok yes you do but they are basically just scenarios. There are hundreds of these for standard CivII plenty of which are probably better. As Sid Meirer himself once said, 'you can't associate with lasers and future techs in the same way as you can with tanks against catapults' so the space and fantasy games are never going to be as successful as the original.

Better graphics. Yes the graphics are better.

Now what you don't get:

Any changes to the interface. I can't beleive that in 2 years they have made absolutely no changes to the interface what so ever. This is still CivII. Ok so that is what they call it but if you have played the original to death then why pay for the same game again simply because they have improved the graphics.


[This message has been edited by a_bates (edited August 11, 2000).]

[Andromeda]

Yes, on balance, I think it's worth it. Not that one could ever get tired of Civ2 Classic, but there are times when one feels like a change/variation, and ToT fills that need.

I hate the graphics, and can't understand how anyone on this list could refer to them as an advance. Gameplay is everything - as Kestrel says, chessplayers don't expect the pieces to be realistic. I replaced all my ToT graphics after the first game.

I have used up the 3 extra unit slots in Civ2, and like the enhanced customisation possible in ToT. The extra maps is a major advance, and I agree it's disappointing that there aren't more multi-map scenarios available.

For every 10 Civilisation games I play, I would probably see myself playing 6 Civ2 Classic, 2 ToT-Extended, 1 ToT-Fantasy, and 1 ToT-Sci-Fi.

[BuilderR]

Don't forget the graphics...
Our eyes need to enjoy too.

[MGamer07]

ToT never lived up to my expectations of it, but if you can get it for $20 i would go for it. BUT...... If you have to pay $50 for it like i did, no, it's not really worth it.

[Hasdrubal]

Get it!
Despite the flaws and the bugs this game is still the best Civ around.

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Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam.

[DarkCloud]

No, do not buy it. Test of Time is the ugliest civ game ever. The graphics are horrible.

[SandMonkey]

DarkCloud -

It's not very hard to replace graphics you don't like with ones you do. That would make the game MUCH more enjoyable for anyone.

The only thing that kills me is that I mix up units, or i can't tell the difference between them just by looking at them, so i'll move my settler in to defend my city, and a pikemen out to build a new city... Grrr....

[EdwardTKing]

From CIV2 to ToT??

Advantages:

* 4 dimensional strategy, for fantasy world
from the start and for the science fiction
world later; multi-map is best single feature.
* AI is better; some Civ2 bugs/quirks removed
* you can do more if you are a scenario designer

Disadvantages:

* fewer existing scenarios
* ToT is more demanding on processing power
particularly in multi-player
* standard game graphics are clever; but very gloomy

For something different; Sid Meier Alpha Centauri (e.g. with Alien Crossfire) is more of a change.

[tobyr]

Sure enough, with the passage of time...

I'd like to point out that this question (is ToT worth it?) gets asked here every few months. This is the first time that the responses were definitely positive and informative. I think this is the inevitable result of more people getting deeper into ToT. When it first came out, experienced posters found little to recommend in it.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com