Why no mapeditor?

[af Ulm]

What was the meeninf of not including a map editor with TOT, if even the old map editor works just fine with it?

[St Leo]

They fooled around with some DLLs, the old Map Editor stopped working, and Microprose is too cheap to pay salaries for fixing it.:-)

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St. Leo
www.sidgames.com/imperialism/
www.sidgames.com/sidportal/
www.sidgames.com/forums/
Member of the AUP!

[DarthVeda]

St Leo's right you know. If you put it in the ToT directory, it crashes.

[af Ulm]

Very cheap of Microprose to not even reprogram a little map editor.
[This message has been edited by af Ulm (edited September 02, 1999).]

[Alex D.]

You guys are somewhat right. Since we changed the GFX code around the entire map editor needed to be re-written. It's not that we are too cheap to pay a programmer to do it - we felt the short amount of time we had to finish the project was best spent fixing bugs rather than adding features. And as you know you can import maps from the old editor - so we didn't leave you high and dry. We did the best we could with the time and resources we had.

[MGamer07]

HA! Fixing bugs?! U were so incredibly CHEAP! Fix bugs?!?!?!? Even after the patch, look at it! There have been at least 14 reported bugs just this last two weeks!!!!!! And there is no map editor!! Come on, at LEAST fix the bugs, cause this game was a HUGE dissapointment for me, I expected a lot more from it.

Also, because the game sux, nobody bought it and nobody is on the multiplay!

And then, there is only one good scenario out for it, and I already beat it (yes, i know there is a converter, and I've used it, but it's not the same as a scenario specifically designed for ToT)!

Please make a patch, cause I'm telling everyone who has the old Civ2 not to buy the new one because it's a waste of money. Hell, if the game was priced for content, I could buy it, and a bag of M&M's for 2 bucks.

Also, what happened to Sid Meir? It didin't say: Sid Mier's Civilization 2: Test of Time. Did he have any part in it? Probably not, because you guys were to cheap to pay him, but that's acceptable, because I know that fat guy who's in charge of janitorial work at the microprose building was hungry, and wanted a bag of chips, so it was money well spent.

Civ3 better be a hell of a lot better, or else I'm gonna stop buying civilzation games from this company, so I won't have a great game molded and destroyed untill it became a pisa-crap compared to the old one.

U people are probably so stupid that u haven't figued out that I'm pissed off. Well. I AM!

SCREW YOU!!!!!!!

[DracoOmega]

Calm down for crying out loud! Just because you don't like Civ II: ToT doesn't mean it sucks. I happen to like it a lot more than Civ II: MPG. Even if it did suck don't bite Microprose's head off. The people there devoted a lot of their time to making this game but if you don't like it then of course they didn't do anything, right?? It doesn't feel very nice to have your work insulted.
[This message has been edited by DracoOmega (edited February 13, 2000).]

[MGamer07]

Well, it's an okay game, but if you already have the old civ2, there isn't much point in buying it, because:
A: No included editors
B: So many bug and glitches it makes Superman for N64 look good
C: They're not going to pay programmers to fix the bugs, or make map editors, so now everyone who has it is stuck with a bunch of bugs

Also, it should have been released like this:

1: Make it an add-on pack for people who already have Civ2 (Lower price, and make it run only if certain files are already there for the original civ2, so there won't be anyone pirating it by not having the original

2:Make a full version for people who don't have the old one (Higher price)

3: They should have added another scenario, cause there's only one good one out (I'm gonna be changing that soon, making a great scenario).

Reasons for getting all pissed off:
1: All the reasons above
2: Stupid sister annoying the hell out of me with nasty perfume that you can smell a whole floor lower than where she is
3: BIG SUGAR HIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, that's why I'm so pissed off, cause I was just expecting a lot more, I wanted at least what the old game had (NO, i'm not one of those people who no matter how much there is, I still want more, I mean, I was playing "Commander Keen" demos for two years, and those are STILL fun.

[SixArmedMan]

Yeah, anybody can give a cheap bunch of excuses for acting like an ass and quite frankly, I couldn't care less. No one ever takes seriously big mouthed punks who can't even take the time to proofread their posts or even take the time to spell "sucks" properly. There are names for people like you. They're called S*** disturbers and in the end, their opinions are worth as much as salt.

[myrlyn]

sorry guys i agree with the first post on this thread. tot was a big waste of money. and the only reason its still on my computers is i might have to review a scenario for it.
problems with it. let me list em.
a. no map editor (what more can i say)
b. no way to use the old units and terrain from civ2mge,even though they are included on the cd.
c. not as customizable as mge. go ahead give it a try.
d.game crashed so many times i first played it, was also the last time i played it.

all i can say is civ3 better be good or ill trade it in on a playstation game.


Anarchy is the cure!!


[This message has been edited by myrlyn (edited February 14, 2000).]

[tobyr]

I think the bottom line on this discussion is very simple. The civ2 players wanted Microprose to release a new game that:
- was excitingly different, with lots of new features nd improvements
- was entirely compatible with civ2 so that all the existing features would still work.

ToT gets little respect because it is not seen as containing lots of exciting new features, AND it is not fully backwards compatible. But please note, the problem is that our two desired goals were simply incompatible.

Making improvements and retesting the whole game is expensive (people also seem to want perfect testing and fixing all bugs as well). Microprose compromised by controlling their budget here and there.

The lukewarm reception of ToT confirms their budget decisions. If the game was a flaming success in sales, more patches and improvements from Microprose would be appropriate.

Perhaps Microprose has noticed by now that the WORST single compromise they could make was not releasing a map editor. This really seems to be a big red flag for their loyal scenarioists. A suggestion: Why don't they contract with SOMEBODY to take their civ2 map editor soure code and enhance it to work for ToT maps? I'm sure this would not involve a lot of cost and precious time on Microprose's part.

- toby


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toby robison
criticalpaths@mindspring.com

[Fast_Eddie]

I can't believe what I'm hearing...

The FW editors blew dead goats, and they made your rules.txt so screwed up it was nearly impossible to fix it. It's a lot easier and more efficient to just open up Notepad.

And you guys are so lazy you can't open up MSPaint and paste the old graphics into the TOT files! How do you think people did it before editors were around???

And not as customizable as MGE?? Just look at the rules.txt. There is so much more that you can do with TOT than MGE that I can't even count them. Options with the units are much better than anything with MGE.

Just hearing criticism like this makes me wonder what you people are doing here at all.

[MGamer07]

Okay, well, the game is okay, but it just wasn't all i expected from Microprose. I expected a new map editor, a rules editor (I can manage without it, but it would still be nice), and I also would've liked a upgrade version, so I could just upgrade my old Civ2.
But about the MGE units, who would want those? The new ones are better.

[William Keenan]

al Umf, MGamer07: Given the attention of the Microprose designers and Civ community and all you could to think of to discuss with us are your complains?
[This message has been edited by William Keenan (edited February 21, 2000).]

[Civmaniac]

If you didn't like CivII:ToT you didn't do what I did
-CivII:ToT is an upgrade from Civ 4.0-

I am seeing if this smiley works here:
:roller: